To be fair ploot is the loot system you’d typically find in MMO dungeons where a hard limit of drops get randomly split between players. This is the party of 6 but 3 items drop. 3 people get items but 3 people don’t.
Instanced loot is different in the sense that everyone part of the game instance has their own sub-instance where loot drops are determined at the individual player level not party specific. This method typically has a 0-2 drop limit for individual players regardless of the total number of players in the game instance. In this model you’d have 0 to 16 items dropping following the typical system from other games that use instanced loot. Blizzard could tweak this and give a 0-1 drop limit but that would still be a 0 to 8 items dropping.
FFA is similar to Ploot in the number of items that drop but everyone has the ability to acquire the items. Some people don’t like this because they aren’t fast enough to claim the loot.
These are the three loot system types that exist. I already stated that I prefer FFA over the other two because the advocates for adding ploot (not sure if anyone wanted instanced loot) want this without a requirement like “must deal X% of damage to enemy to be considered for loot”. Until there is a safeguard against people who aim to leech off boss kills I will oppose any system. I gave ploot advocates a way to enter a proper discussion and flush out a system that will work but everyone gets outraged on the forums. As far as Instanced Loot I would only want this if they reduced the drop rate or loot table to compensate for more drops in the game. Basically making it a double edge sword where you sacrifice on one end to gain something on the other end.
FFA is the system we currently have and it wouldn’t be locked to that individual like ploot would be if implemented. If a change happens the change should include a required damage done to bosses for a chance at loot.
Actually there is validity to what he said. The ones calling for increased drop rates and bind to account items and consensual PvP come from the pro ploot (fairness) crowd. I have yet to see somebody that is against ploot but wants increased drop rates.
D2R has FFA loot and many who prefer FFA loot are asking for higher drops. Moreover, D2:LoD has already had an increase in drop rates, highlighting that FFA loot does not prevent player complaints about drop rates and increased drop rates.
No
I have. The whole increase drop rate argument is a slippery slope fallacy and dog whistling.
It seems like the only ones thinking that ploot leads to 7X (or 8X) higher drop rates are anti-ploot posters who ignore the facts.
Name one thread that argues that we need ploot AND increased drop rates. To my knowledge, none exists. The fact that you did not name one to support your case speaks volumes. To my knowledge, there also is no thread topic arguing from increased drop rates amd FFA loot.
I was talking about individual posters. I will not name names since that would violate the forum rules but if you look a little you will see for yourself. I see this all the time as I know what posters are against ploot.
Do you never get tired of yourself? You and other anti ploot people come up with the same things over and over again.
Then people show up with actual arguments to counter your fears and fallacies and then you repeat yourself again, like a broken record.
You made the claim that no FFA loot supported asked for increased drop rates. I said that you were wrong.
I never said that no ploot supporter asked for increased drop rates, since that would be incredibly stupid on my part given the sheer number of optional ploot supporters.
You are right, my position remains the same. I have yet to see anything that would convince me that implementing ploot wouldn’t eventually lead to increasing drop rates, quite the contrary actually.
I know for a fact that D2:LOD with FFA loot had its drop rate increased. That is not speculation. It is fact.
Since Blizzard raised the drop rates in D2:LoD and that made its way into D2R, are you going to stop playing as a result? Did that increase in drop rate ruin D2:LoD and now D2R in your mind?
Your fear of increased drop rates seems unjustified to me especially when almost all ploot advocates explicitly state keeping total drops constant.
Don’t get me wrong. FFA isn’t perfect but adding another system even optional won’t solve the issue. Some people may join public lobbies but others would stop joining public lobbies. My posts were to attack the problem at the core instead of arguing which loot system is needed.
Want to stop people from leeching boss drops? Add a minimum damage dealt requirement.
I’m going to stay out of the “this side wants increased drop rate” debate. To me it is more about targeting the source rather than the symptom in regards to FFA vs Ploot vs Instance Loot at this point.
If this was a remake I would have went in favor of Instance Loot with a lower drop rate or lower drop table values. This way no one is impacted by another player, everyone has a truly fair chance at something, and items don’t get too common too quickly. At some point they will become more common. However, This has been marked as a Remaster following the FFA system of the original. Ploot without conditions would be trading one problem for another without resolving the source issue. It is what is referred to as a bandaid fix.
Yes, they have made plenty of changes to D2 over the years, I’m sure they have increased drop rates and I’m sure they have decreased them. They have changed the skill system, buffed skills and nerfed skills, they added synergies, they added 2 new character classes and even added new act, they added new items, new monster & new events.
D2R in its current state maintains excellent item rarity, unlike D3 that just throws dump truck loads of legendary/set items at you constantly and where your only metrics for success are measured by how many hundreds of legendarys you can convert to crafting materials per hour and how high of a greater rift level you can clear. There is no truly rare items in D3, only the stats that can roll on those items.
No one is asking for the current D3 drop rates. You are making a strawman argument. Please focus on what players are asking for.
We are asking for an alternate loot allocation system with identical total drops.
You keep ascribing hidden motivations to others. If I said all players who want to keep the game FFA loot are pickit cheats that would be a morally indefensible position and an outright lie. I hope that you can do the same courtesy and not claim to know what I or someone else wants if they do not say it. You do not know me in real life. My position on D2R loot is based on my sense of fairness and equity in having a better and optional loot system.
Not a strawman, I have seen enough posts from people calling for ploot & increased drops rates.
Also I have a very basic understanding of human psychology in that the ploot complaint is derived from people who are unhappy with the loot they are receiving. However implementing ploot will not resolve this issue based on how D2 works with item rarity. So the very natural progression to the failed ploot solution is to increase the drop rates.
I think that you are wrong in your supposition; however, let’s take this to its logical conclusion.
Scenario 1: Ploot is introduced as an option. This demonstrates what the real drop rates are on a per player basis. Ploot advocates are happy that they at least got a choice on loot allocation even if the drop rates remain unchanged.
Scenario B: No optional ploot. The calls for increased drop rates continue from both some FFA only and optional ploot supporters. Blizzard may or may not give in, but there is no ploot as an olive branch to quiet the complaints.
That was your first mistake, buying D2 assuming it was a ‘fair’ game. D2 came before this modern generation of games that have fairness, equality and inclusion. Where everybody is a superhero, everybody has all the best gear and as a result everybody is the same. D2 came from a time when it was fun just to play the game (the trip, not the destination) and people were not just focused on what everybody else has and trying to keep up with the kardashians (streamers).
D2 is not a fair game, the PvP is not fair (non-consensual and big time class mismatches), griefing is not fair, character building is not fair, immunities and PvM is not fair, accidently socketing your high lvl runes in the wrong order with no way to retrieve them is not fair and last but not least, the loot (or lack thereof) is not fair.
So you are advocating for FFA only to keep D2R unfair. Good to know that you understand that FFA only loot is unfair. My moral compass says that we should add an optional, more fair system.