Please Nerf Spirit, Grief & Enigma

I strongly urge to the developers to nerf Spirit, Grief and Enigma runewords. This would be a huge step in the right direction by fostering player choice and further fueling build diversity.

The justification for these changes is Spirit is arguably the best shield in the game and is so cheap. Grief is simply too powerful with the +340-400 bonus flat damage that no other weapon comes close, even Breath of the Dying and very expense Last Wish. Same for Enigma. All the godly stats on this armor makes it too good to pass up.

Lastly, it’s important to point out the goal is to NOT gut Spirit, Grief and Enigma, but rather take them down a notch while retaining their flavor. With that said, I’m proposing the following nerfs below…


  • Change All Skills from +2 to +1


  • Change Damage from +340-400 to +260-320


  • Remove +0-74 To Strength (Based On Character Level)

This isn’t even enough of a nerf.


LoL! Nice trolling dude. :laughing:


Fixed. Reduce flat damage bonus by 40%. :slight_smile:


I think it would be a great fit if we could remove the FRW on Enigma and give it to CoH. Then the choice between CoH and Fortitude is harder.

But then again, how will Unique armors ever be able to compete with this.


Oskill burst of speed on a runeword perhaps?


Enigma should be removed and +1 to teleport added to torch.
I agree on grief.


I agree that something needs to be done about Grief and Enigma at some point.

But this is not what the PTR feedback is for. The PTR is for testing the changes they ARE making so that they can try to tune those before go live, not propose entirely new changes that aren’t in the patch.


Caster are op in every aspect of the game. But do you want nerf one of the best weapon for melee! Please go play wow and leave D2.


Grief definitely need to be nerfed because it kills all, literally all of the other melee weapons.

However, in return, all the other physical item & skill need to be buffed at least twice stronger than what we have now.

Enigma definitely need to be nerfed too. It has all good attributes. All skill, damage reduction, Strength, Magic Find, defense, and Gg Teleport. TBH enigma is even good without the teleport. To be fair, either Teleport need to have internal cool-time or other stuff need the teleport skill.


I agree that runeword balance needs to be addressed. I think that the goal of the Dev team is to bring up classes/combos that literally see 0 play FIRST.

Here are my 3 “top” runeword nerfs:

Enigma - teleport has a 1s Cd, strength gained from runeword cut down to a flat +20 (huge culprit here).

Greif - should deal about as much as BOTD/other top tier weapon runewords - reduce flat damage added number to adjust this (not sure what the exact value should be).

Spirit: Set to +1 all skills down from +2. Let other items shine.


Try find whit 1 sec of cd tele as a melee.
Also try pvp vs mage with 1 sec cd… GL.

So melee fighters are pretty bad in D2 and people want to kill them even more. Taking away enigma and grief leaves them with constant attacks that does not do much.


Indeed, Spirit Shield makes the other unique&runeword shield poo.

Also Spirit Sword kills all the low-mid-semi high end items as well.

TBH +All Skills on the Spirit should be just removed at all. Because with +1 All Skill, it is still top of the shield for the caster


well removing teleport from enigma or putting a cd on it will just make even more players play sorceress


Agreed, Spirit is arguably the best shield in the game and is so cheap.


On Grief (And weapons)

There’s a simpler fix to Greif. Make it not apply to primary attacks only, and leave it on (or add it to) skills such as smite, or blade fury, Warcry, or Leap (no, not leap attack, the pushback on landing portion of leap doing damage would be hillarious to have a spec around to be built), or mindblast, or psychic hammer.

This gives it niche spots in builds, making them viable, because other specs that use it have viable alternative options between Last wish, Breath of the dying, Phoenix, and Stormlash. There are many endgame viable weapons for many classes. I don’t think focusing on them is necessarily productive beyond making something More Niche to make other options considered.

On Shields (not just Spirit!)

Spirit is perfectly fine. The issue with balance changing this runeword or nerfing it is irregardless of if you drop it to +1 skills, you still don’t have options to beat +35 FCR & 112 mana on top of resistances.
If people want spirit to be balanced, Stormshield needs to be brought up to par, in addition to Lidless wall and Vesertaunt. The ward too. There are so many great thematic shields, but those are shields, spirit is an offhand. That said, pali shields have the right idea. (Exile, HoZ, alma negra are endgame viable alternatives till a more focused option is available to your character.)
Phoenix is the elephant in the room, and needs to be balanced to be honest, partly because of how %Enhanced damage offhands calculated damage in this game in some instances. On shields, it should be limited to 300-350% ED IMO, to give DW Claws a chance, and other offensive shields / weapons a chance to catch up.
However, if we’re talking pure power curve, there are two endgame viable shields, unless Niche spec’d, (yes, looking at smiter!) This needs to change.

On Enigma

Enigma is a quintessential example of an endgame item. there are 4-5 chests in the game that are considered Endgame for characters: Enigma, COH, Fortitude, Arkaines (BC +2 skills) and Skullders (MF is why). 4-5 because 1 or two of these is debatable (Arkaines / Skullders)
If you are looking for alternate options or suggesting buffs for Endgame items when there are 4 options, the two rarest armors in the game should be buffed; Tyreals (which everyone can agree with, it’s a trophy, not a good item), and Templar’s might. That would bring it to 6 chest pieces endgame, if these were being adjusted, and make them more than ‘eyecandy trophies.’

Productive sidecallouts:

So if we’re going to say something is op or not op, how about we point out that there are only 4 good rings with 2 ring slots (SOJ, BK, Ravenfrost, and Wisp; Nagel honorable mention), or 3 good amulets in the game (Maras, Highlords, and Tal’s; Metalgrind is bad and painful as a sacrifice), or 2-3 headpieces in game (Shako & CoA, now 3 with flickering flame, wisdom is meh, and doesn’t affect blade fury; this is bad.)

There is more to balance than just, ‘these 3 items are OP.’

Rather than just calling for nerfs, consider how it impacts the game, the metas, diversity gearing options, and how it can improve the game, and make it so items are better targeted than just ‘too powerful.’

Lets also be clear about something else regarding balance. In order for there to be ‘good items’, there has to be Bad items. I’m not saying buff all items to tuesday. But I am saying that D3 almost got it right with ‘these are options, but these 1 or two are the best’

Also, like HerpSquirter said, not nessasarily the right time and place.


Only the runes are cheap, and you need (unless a pally) a 156 str to use one… hardly “cheap” from a stats point of view.

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i agree,

nerf all of op’d spiits, enigmas, and griefs forever. leave the rest of our alone ofc, but the op should have theirs nerfed to validate they opinoins.

maybe have atoggle mode when u create character: nerfed guy - doesn’t benefit from spirit, enigma, or grief.


When Enigma is dealt with, we will come for Sorc Teleport next. :smiling_imp: