Nerf Spirit, Grief & Enigma for Patch 2.5

[excala1-1410]

going to vote big NO to spirit nerf. it was introduced as a good low tier and should stay as such.

[CharlesJT-1538]

@Jman-1752

For Enigma:
The modifiers I would look at is either the outrageous amount of Strength or the Armor buff it gives. In my mind the FRW bonus sort of gels with the +1 teleport making it a kind of “mobility” armor. However, the strength and defense buffs (among others) just means there is very little trade off.

Agreed and updated OP by adding multiple options to nerf Enigma by removing the strength bonus or defense buffs as you mentioned. One of these options should be acceptable…

Enigma

• Remove +45% FRW and give bonus to Chains of Honor runeword OR…
• Remove Damage Reduced By 8% and give bonus to Stone runeword OR…
• Remove +0-74 To Strength and give bonus to Strength runeword OR…
  • This would replace +20 To Strength
• Remove +1-99% Magic Find and give bonus to Splendor runeword
  • This would replace +20% Magic Find

[Voodoo-11409]

too bad they dont have a thumbs down button lol, you see a few clicks on there hearts but if they had a thumbs down option on here.wowzers lol, you wouldnt like it to say the least.

[CharlesJT-1538]

I respect your opinion but think this would be a huge step in the right direction for the game by fostering player choice.

[Voodoo-11409]

if you want it fostered by player choice then this will never come to the patch, my comment was kind of referring to that. you would see how many people disagree if they had some kind of thumbs down option or something similar

[Salbahis-2547]

i think it’s only good people can comment without that nonsense. if some ideas are bad people should say why they are bad and not just down vote. makes blizzard more informed too. if anything from this forum ever inspires them.

[CharlesJT-1538]

I see numerous callings for no nerfs. I think that kind of thinking is one-sided and is not healthy from a game design standpoint. There is both nerfing and buffing, both of which are equally important and are essential elements that establish an equilibrium within the game.

In certain instances, nerfing is the best course of action for bringing overpowered runewords down a notch to achieve relative balance.

Most detrimental course of action is taking the approach of only buffing across the board to contend with unbalanced elements, which introduces power creep and has a devastating ramification to the overall experience. Last point is nerfing with a measured hand is healthy, keyword measured.

[Voodoo-11409]

@CharlesJT-1538

I see numerous callings for no nerfs.

i see 10x as many for nerfing stuff.the devs read through the comments for feedback.when they see the majority of people saying they shouldnt be nerfing things in a game already with a low player base.I think they are going to stick to the player base that doesnt want stuff nerfed

[Revenant309-1514]

@CharlesJT-1538

I see numerous callings for no nerfs. I think that kind of thinking is one-sided and is not healthy from a game design standpoint

When the calls for no nerfs, trumps the calls for nerfs, that is called a majority and should clue you in to how the majority of players feel about your opinion on this topic.

When you are proposing this nerf, its clear you only have one class or two in mind, Sorc/Paly, right? You are neglecting to think about the other casters who will suffer from this, because they are not as strong in early/mid game, and rely heavily on these items to help their competition.

[CharlesJT-1538]

@Mizzo-21892

There is an argument that you cant really buff melee too much without nerfing Grief - because the flat damage bonus of Grief would grow with the buff taking it further out of sight of everything else.

Grief %ED or something, it needs a nerf.

Spirit needs a hefty nerf.

Enigma can remain the same but with a cooldown on teleport - or nerf teleport. Either.

I am in full support of these changes - and hope to see a more diverse set of builds as a result of them. BOTD in 1handers is complete crap next to Grief - awful. Dreadful. Not really an option at all.

As i always say - why not just do it for 1 ladder and see how it pans out? Themed ladders are the way forward.

Well said, Mizzo…

[CharlesJT-1538]

@Revenant309-1514

When you are proposing this nerf, its clear you only have one class or two in mind, Sorc/Paly, right? You are neglecting to think about the other casters who will suffer from this, because they are not as strong in early/mid game, and rely heavily on these items to help their competition.

I’m proposing these nerfs from an overall game perspective standpoint. If other casters will suffer from this as you mentioned, then the developers should buff those casters accordingly, to achieve relative balance.

At the end of the day, the proposed nerfs to Spirit, Grief and Enigma would be a huge step in the right direction by fostering player choice and expanding build diversity.

[Nymerius-11819]

They could do that stuff for ladder but leave it alone in NL. That way no one’s toes get stepped on. They still keep what they already own the way it was. But we see a fresh ladder. Whatever makes people stop asking for all these nerfs and changes. When the ladder flops miserably we can then say, see, no one wants to play that way.

[Revenant309-1514]

@CharlesJT-1538

At the end of the day, the proposed nerfs to Spirit, Grief and Enigma would be a huge step in the right direction by fostering player choice and expanding build diversity.

But thats moot… There already is plenty of alternative options, its called choice, and players have the choice to use the meta, or diverse out. You are just picking on the most common ones, because…

I agree with buffing other castes and skills, and Blizz is already doing that.

So until you convince me you have legit reasons to do this, I will keep seeing this threads as just a hate on for the meta.

[TheDarkJedi-1970]

@Nymerius-11819

Whatever makes people stop asking for all these nerfs and changes.

The problem is, it will never stop.

[Salbahis-2547]

i don’t get how it’s a problem that people wanna discuss things about the game. that’s just what the forums are for. just mute the discussion if you don’t wanna take a part in it. or don’t click on it at all. why be intolerant.

[TheDarkJedi-1970]

Discussion/debate is fine. What I have a problem with is when people scream “troll” when someone else doesn’t agree with their ideas.

[CharlesJT-1538]

@Anu-11792

Hard disagree

cOh is already plenty strong

While Nigma could be nerfed

I think the main issue is not specifically teleport Oskill but rather teleport itself

Teleport should gain a penalty like running has with def/block

“Lose the bonus of your gear for 1 sec after teleporting”

This reduces the blind spamming of the skill and also makes nigma have a 1sec cooldown since the skill is on the gear

The nerf to Engima should NOT touch teleport whatsoever as that is the identity and flavor of this runeword. However, the options listed below are potential candidates…

Enigma

• Remove +45% FRW and give bonus to Chains of Honor runeword OR…
• Remove Damage Reduced By 8% and give bonus to Stone runeword OR…
• Remove +0-74 To Strength and give bonus to Strength runeword OR…
  • This would replace +20 To Strength
• Remove +1-99% Magic Find and give bonus to Splendor runeword
  • This would replace +20% Magic Find

[CharlesJT-1538]

Completely agree, TheDarkJedi. This forum entire purpose is to support community discussion for the betterment of the game.

People have the right for healthly debate (and to disagree), but never attack the individual.

[Anu-11792]

@CharlesJT-1538

• Remove +45% FRW and give bonus to Chains of Honor runeword OR…

• Remove Damage Reduced By 8% and give bonus to Stone runeword OR…

• Remove +0-74 To Strength and give bonus to Strength runeword OR…

• This would replace +20 To Strength

• make -[clvl]% magic find negative instead

Fixed it, we got a deal

[CharlesJT-1538]

@Revenant309-1514

So until you convince me you have legit reasons to do this, I will keep seeing this threads as just a hate on for the meta.

Who is the “arbiter” for legit reasons? You? We both have opinions and do not agree, which is perfectly fine. But calling this thread as hate for the meta is misguided.