This is not a topic about the stats or the power of the item, but the mechanic it brings which, in my opinion, is not in the right direction.
The Mistake:
Martial Arts Assassins are already convoluted enough without needing to monitor whether a charge was spent or not (monitoring hits and misses is tiresome enough). Additionally the build is weak enough that this change will not suffice.
On the other hand, the solution i have seen suggested of buffing the chance so that it can reach 100% although good on surface, essentially would make the buildās playstyle identical to the feral druid and frenzy barb, removing itās unique identity.
A better solution (maybe?):
I would instead suggest that charge-up skills trigger their effect when gaining charges as well as when spending them, making Martial Arts playstyle much more fluid, without needing multiple weak attacks before dealing any significant damage.
P.S. i would also prefer if this was the way this tree worked in general, but we could at least first test it through a Runeword.
9 Likes
The charging effects should be a bit weaker or else there would be no incentive to release the charges.
3 Likes
Youād only get the effect when gaining and spending a charge, not when attacking with it while already charged up, otherwise it would be like werewolf or frenzy again.
2 Likes
If anything like this would be implemented the charge skills should each have their own effect on charge up, separate from the release. I think we still want the big spectacle to happen with a finisher to keep the feel of MA intact.
FoF - fire bolts at nearby enemies, small burning patch for single targets or just an explosion. Hydra if weāre feeling flashy.
CoT - charged bolts, chain lightning, shock web or static field (probably a bit too much).
BoI - frost nova? Cant really think of anything except frozeb orb, but that would kind overpower the release effect visually.
PS - random effect of the above or something more creative
TS - just add the damage to the attacks
CS - no idea, adding leach to the charge attacks seems boring but the skill is kinda boring and underused anyways. Maybe add a very short duration lifetap to the 3 charge effect to make this skill somewhat useful.
Maybe keep it less flashy to avoid overpowering the release effect and general sensory overload.
1 Like
Man you always attack either with a charge-up skill or with a finisher, so what you propose means that you will have a charged attack on each hit.
So Nephalem has a point.
In general I do agree with you that MA assassin is pretty weak and very clumsy.
Maybe just add more AR and DAMAGE to the Assassin ffsā¦
I personally would scratch the first charge up state and consume/output all charges but only remove one state of each charged up skill. That way, if you want to play e.g. claw of thunder, you would have to charge up two times. Hit with finisher, loose 1 charge state. Hit with charge up, be on max charge state. So: charge up - charge up, finish, charge up, finish. That would make it less clunky, more fluid, increase stability of damage output.
Sounds good for playthrough and when you reach endgame and get mosaic, youād only have to charge up all 10-15 seconds IF mosaic gets buffed to 50/100%.
Okay that makes sense, over charging wonāt really do anything that way. It makes it easier to implement since devs can just reuse the animations rather than coming up with new ones.
Mosaic is the wrong approach , i will say more these dev are the wrong approach for d2re , at this point i dont really care anymoe, how to have faith with this mess idk
4 Likes
Exactly! Four potential unused skillsets/animations for repurpose then (mercs, monster; ctcs on items (claws e.g.^^), etc). My other thought on that: it makes MA easier/smoother to play on a walkthrough, while Mosaic can be an endgame goal in order to ācompleteā the build.
It makes the worst part about MA sins (charging up) actually fun to play. I feel charge refund is a bandaid solution so you can avoid the actual skill mechanic (charging up) as much as you can. Itās bad design philosophy if your end goal is so you donāt have to use the skill. But if charging up was rewarding in itself I donāt think itās necessary to try to avoid it. I think the devs are on the wrong train of thought by increasing the pay off to justify the effort it takes rather than just making the process of charging more fun.
2 Likes
Give the item an option that does not consume consumption charge-up, but the ability must be added to the assassinās skill itself. A corresponding option is added for each finish move skill. I donāt think it will simply change to one item between the Sorceress and B-nec who pays mani and uses it infinitely,
the Assassin who needs to break through the attack success rate, hit rate, and block rate. After all, charge-up is impossible in pvp, and there are many things that need to be improved in order to use MA skills in a stylish way in PVE.
If the charge ups always instead of the finishers it would solve that problem. I am not sure why they made the finishers always hit instead, they were never the problem.
The problem with refunding charges is it can be more a hinderance than helpful which has been mentioned a lot on here.
Completely agree with you the process of charge-up should be improved instead of increasing the output to make it worthwhile dealing with a clumsy mechanic. Saying that I do think the MA needs buffs or we need more ways to reduce enemy resistances on claws.
I suggested in another thread that instead of not consuming charges why not change it so that you have a chance to gain an additional charge on striking. I think this would make charge-up process better.
I and a lot of other people have said these type of mechanics (chance to not consume, etc) should be embedded in the skill tree and not on the item forcing us into using an item. Iām hoping this is what happens but Iām canāt see it happening unfortunately.
Iād rather them buff the un-used unique claws firelizard and shadow killer to be useable for MA builds and allow crescent moon in claws than have this runeword which doesnāt seem to offer much outside of something that as mentioned should be in the skill tree.
3 Likes
I posted a similar idea some 8 hours prior.
Props to OP for not having as much rambling as me.
IDK If it would be overpowered but it addresses concerns with duration, expenditure and DPS during charge-phase.
Up to those who know to work out the details.
1 Like
Another improvement they should implement is make charge up skills always hit rather than finishers. Itās much more annoying missing a charge up then 1 kick in a chain of 5. Not sure why they keep on trying to make finishers better when itās the charge ups that are the problem. It opens up a lot more weapon options for kickers other than claws for a decent hit rate. Even if youāre using Dragon Claw as your finisher having to max out DC, CM to get a decent hit rate along your all the synergies for PH is not feasible.
1 Like
Yep missing when trying to get charges is annoying, really annoying. I found myself when not having optimal gear going extremely dex heavy on my build just to get a decent hit chance on charge-up swings. Obviously this mostly goes away once you get infinity but Iād rather not to have to wait that long into ladder and I still found myself running quite a bit of dex once I got infinity for diablo, baal etc.
Finisherās only always hit when you have charges but I think having this and the charge skills always hit isnāt great. That being said finishers get better AR bonuses so if we were doing that it makes sense the charge-up always hits and then finishers use regular AR.
Personally I donāt like using weapons other than claws with assassinās but Iām always for something that will improve variety in weapons used on a build. This why Iāve been arguing for more minus to enemy resistances on claws. Claws have no real options here and instead we have to use items like crescent moon, doom, phoenix, HOJ etc which rules out using fists of fire, claws of thunder and blades of ice.
Agree with the DC/CM, have really wanted to run this with PS but between NHD issues and hit chance havenāt really bothered with it.
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While almost on the topic, please allow crescent moon and lawbringer in claws. It would help dragon tail and CoT builds immensely, without needing a bunch of new runewords.
2 Likes
How they can fix MA is to have each claw ability as an āAuraā. While it is on your right mouse your finishing moves gain that augment to its damage. Each hit adds a charge. These charges have durations that can be extended by slotting the charge up aura to right click or by an on kill effect from mosaic.
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Hm, interesting. The spender would charge up by itself, keeping the ramp up feeling from before. Maybe give the charges a short duration after changing āauraā, so that you can stack two different typea of charges.
It would definitely require some work, and some changes to phoenix strike, but it sounds very interesting.
Edit: dragon talon would become hilariously OP with this change though. Theyād need to figure something out to keep it in line with other spenders, without killing kicksins and riftsins (these builds would probably become obsolete by these changes anyways, but a build being outclassed is better than a build not working at all anymore). Dragon tail would probably be fine and better than before, but dragon claw would see no use at all.
1 Like
How about the charge-ups deal 25% Elemental damage + physical and the finisher does 100%? That way the charge ups at least contribute.