i tip my hat to you, you are still trying to explain them how it workes, even when they again and again have showen they dont want the truth.
i say they. but it is most likely the same few persons when multi accounts.
they say the exact same things. use the same words. And one thing in commen. they lie all the time.
Yeah objective in your opinion .But opinions arenāt based on facts so what you saw makes it here in reversed to subjective data.
We should be supporting solutions that encourage people to play together. The /players8 does the exact opposite, so a big no to that.
Your original post details how you used groups.
Would you have been able to use /players8 instead of a speedrun group with the same result? We all know the answer is no. A group was needed even if /players8 was implemented.
Iāve always found it easier and faster if the group helped kill, even when I was on a caster. So no, another baseless claim.
Again, skating the issue with a baseless claim that has no relevance.
You use other players to get /players8. Why wouldnāt you do the same if you just had /players8? Youāre acting like this is something I was trying to hide or else Iām clueless for not knowing.
Clearly not since you still needed to group up.
Some people canāt handle soloing with other people in game. They would still need to group if they wanted max exp and the highest change for drops. Other people just like to be social or help out lower level players.
You once again create a scenario based on nothing to avoid the fact that it still exists in some form regardless.
Except this situation isnāt one of those examples. Either someone will take up a spot and solo in a full game to get /players8 drop chances, or they will use the /players8 command. Neither are good for groups.
Now, if you want to say that the increased drop rates only occur if you are in the group and playing in proximity of that group, thus negating the ability for someone to enter a game and reap the rewards of a group they arenāt with, then Iām all for it. Letās do that to encourage grouping while, at the same time, negating multiboxers and people that join group games only to do their own thing. See how fast the anti-/players8 people cry.
I know, Iām just saying that /players8 command for online play is a very bad solution.
One of the solutions Iāve supported is the implementation of personal loot or a hybrid of personal and shared loot. In either of those, the personal loot component should only drop for players that are in proximity to the kill.
Except itās still there for people that want to skate the system with multiboxing or taking up space in an actual group to solo.
I donāt have a problem with a time allocated loot system if done right and put on a toggle, but I donāt think it will help. You will still have people that join games that have a group just solo and use the extra players to get a /players8 drop rate. Not only are they not grouping, but they are taking a spot away from someone who might want to group.
The only solution I see is to not allow for the higher drop rates if they arenāt grouped and within the vicinity of the party. That way, if they join the game and go off to do their own thing, they wonāt get rewarded for taking a spot away from the group.
It will be only personal loot or a mix of personal and shared. For example, the shared drop will work as it does currently, but the game will add an additional personal loot drop for each player that is in proximity (which includes a no drop chance). No timer based drops at all.
Once a suitable personal loot system is implemented, there wonāt be as big of an incentive to solo players 8 games anymore. To make solo players 8 even less lucrative, certain OP builds can have their skills or their synergies nerfed in a separate change.
You then should not need to nerf players 8 drops when someone decides to solo them.
I think the problem with personal loot is, what if they donāt see the drop because itās just off screen? What if they drop from the game or die and get back via TP past the point of the drop?
Time allocated personal loot is to assure if the person doesnāt get the drop, someone else can get it after an allotted period of time.
100% wrong. Why would a person share drops with a group when they can just join the game and do their own thing outside of the group and get all the drops?
Unless youāre talking about an increased drop rate above and beyond 8 players to accommodate the personal loot system, which is a hard no. I think /p8 is a good drop rate.
Plus, I think personal loot it a lot harder to sell than /players8.
They donāt have to have the killed monster on screen. The distance can be similar to the distance needed to gain experience from that monster.
What if they drop from the game? Thatās quite the edge case to bring up at this time but sure, they can rejoin and claim the loot.
No, Iām saying the person soloing players 8 will feel more inclined to join a group instead. The drops may technically be slightly less frequent per monster killed, but being in a group those runs will take much less time.
Big nope! Thatās one sure way to ruin any chance of making players want to play together at all. Blizzard should be encouraging co-op play, not create even more incentives to play alone. What a boring game that will become.
The drop rates are fine
Itās The drops that are bad
This kind of system would greatly help itemization and drops hype
Every Unique and set you find can be good
Even if you donāt need them they can be salvaged to improve another one
The improvement process is based on a wide range, meaning itās harder to get perfect rolls which means you are more likely to try multiple times
It still doesnāt negate the possibility of an item dropping off screen and never found and not being accessible to anyone else.
Youāve never been dropped from a game then had the game full when you tried to log back in?
Again, if they can solo in an 8 player game and take all the loot, why would they want to group and get 1/8th the loot?
/Players8 is already in the game. Itās also accessible to people through various means. So in that regard, the damage is done.
The people that want to group, group. The ones that donāt, donāt but still find a way to use groups to get 8 player drop rates by removing a spot from a party to solo in their game.
This isnāt hard math.
Even the people that use grouped games to exploit 8 player drop rates outside of the group admit to grouping so I donāt think /players8 will have any effect on grouping.
That said, if they simply put restrictions on how players8 works, like they must be in the group and in the vicinity of the group for the increased drop rates, somewhat like your ploot idea, then Iām 100% for that. I know that those same people will suddenly want either ploot or /players8ā¦ or they would quit.
Do you have any statistics to back your statement up that people quit because of low drop rates? They might as well quit because drop rates are TOO HIGH and they have already found everything and build everything they wanted. So what makes you right over everyone else, please do tell.
Why does that matter so much? Everyone else has their own personal loot drops anyway.
Where are you getting this from?? Do you even know how player count affects in game drops?
For single player only, and restricted to single player for good reason.
As I said, implementation of personal loot will resolve this by making solo play less appealing. It increases the overall number of drops for the party but ensures the individual party members get some share of those drops.
People will still feel free to play solo players 8 if they so wish, but they are really better off joining a group if they want to farm more quickly and therefore more efficiently.
Because as the drop list pops up and a Ber or Windforce drops and the person doesnāt get it, it would suck to have that drop go to waste. It would make people incredibly frustrated with that type of loot system.
If Iām in a group of 8, I will in theory get 1/8th the drops. Under a ploot system I will definitely get 1/8th the drops. If I join a game with 7 people in a group but donāt join the group or run with the group, I will get 100% of the drops. The OP actually said that he does this in Kurast to exploit the higher drop rates.
I donāt know where you are confused here.
The /players8 command is in game for single players which means itās already in the game. The /players8 function is already in online game play with having 8 players which means itās also in online gameplay in a different form.
As mentioned, it isnāt as ārestrictedā as you seem to think it is since people are getting it online and outside of a group.
Ploot is not in the system in any form.
If you want to increase drop rates above 8 players, then itās a no. I think thatās a mistake.
If you want to keep drop rates the same for 8 players, then your math is flawed, and people will still solo on grouped games because they will get all of the drops rather than 1/8 ploot allocation.
No, under the ploot system, everyone has their own potential drop that they only see and can pick up. So instead of up to 1 item dropping from a monster in total, there is up to 1 item dropping from that monster per near by player.
I already mentioned a hybrid approach that can have both a shared (ie current system) and a ploot system that sits on top of thisā¦ or it can just be 100% ploot.
Drop chances and so on can be play tested, balanced and calibrated as necessary.
Adding /players8 command online will inadvertently lead to higher drop rates overall anyway, so I really donāt get your objection.
At least a ploot system is much more conducive to people wanting to play together, and will add a lot more dimensions to the Diablo 2 game by making this type of play more appealing and viable for the vast majority of players who at the moment solo MF because group play is far too unappealing.
The other thing is to your concern, builds that are stupidly overpowered and obliterate players 8 content should be nerfed, which will then make this solo players 8 practice less viable, thereby drawing those players to play in a coop group or a split farming group.
Ok, so you are advocating upping the drop rate by a factor of 8. Eight times the drop rate is way too much.
A /players8 command will increase drop rates but no more than it already does. As mentioned several times, itās quite easy for a person to solo in a players8 game by just joining a game with 7 people in it and running alone.
Iām not against a ploot system but it canāt increase the drop rate, especially by the amount youāre talking about.
First off, nerfs are never, ever the answer.
Second, I donāt think you understand how people can easily solo /players8 groups. You can either teleport around Kurast and open everything or you can run around with a barb and find items on everything people kill.
Actually killing things would be slow in comparison unless you have a 90+ with top gear.
I said this immediately after:
Drop chances and so on can be play tested, balanced and calibrated as necessary.
See above.
I said will inadvertently lead to higher drop ratesā¦ and significantly so.
Drop rates in players 8 on a per game basis will still be the same, yes.
But youāre overlooking that there will be higher rate of drops across the entire player base since many people will now start using this command in their solo games, whether itās /players3, /players5 or /players7 where as previously they may have just solo farmed on the default players 1 difficulty.
Split farmers in smaller groups of 4 people can also use /players7 to get a buff in drops without a significant drop in clear speeds.
This is also a huge buff for the aforementioned OP builds and even more of a buff for high rune drops from Lower Kurast since they donāt need to go through the exercise of seeking out a game that already has 7 other players in it.
Why should certain classes be able to slide across a players 8 game and kill everything with ease? Does not make sense.
A 10 to 15% damage nerf across those specific builds is more than reasonable and will go a long way to restore balance as well as help address your concerns here.
Iāll give you an example, what builds do you mostly play?
Good luck doing that right now consistently twice a minute across a period of 2 hours.
So, Iām against an increase in drop rates above what the game already provides. Unlike Diablo 3, D2R does not have the kind of loot system that would work with a super high drop rate. An eight player drop rate is about as high as I think it should be.
You keep saying Iām overlooking this. Iām not. This is the intent. To give people a challenge that comes with a higher drop rate.
I think youāre overlooking this since Iāve explained it several times and you keep coming back with the same replyā¦ so I will say it again. People are already doing this by taking up a spot in a game and not joining the group or simply multibox.
All of your concerns already exist and people are already gaining the benefit of /players8 in solo gameplay. If this already exist, then why not just put it on a toggle and leave that spot in the group open for someone that actually wants to group?
I donāt know how much clearer I can be.
Buff other classes. Nerfs are never, ever the answer.
Why would someone have to do that twice a minute?
Just so you know, when workers suffer because of the system, they go on strike on the roads and even create revolution instead of āplaying moreā like you suggest. Not everyone is a sheep of the system.
Isnāt your argument that you can only play the game for 10min a month because of your 4 wives, 15 kids and 101 dalmatiners?
I think you should not compare a game to a job you do for a living then.