Everyone can argue but the people using logic and reason can quickly identify where the line is drawn between a moderate adjustment and a core game mechanic change. Its not like any change is a core change. If a change is made and it doesnt affect the way the whole game is played, if it doesn’t affect other players, and if it does affect everyone but it is such a small adjustment that doesn’t hurt then its not really a serious core game change.
What I’m trying to say is that whole auto-gold changes for everyone and it makes the whole game different its not really changing the big picture. Its not changing the amount of gold dropped and it’s not really a negative change. I can see why people would be against it but I can just as rationally argue for it because it is an improvement that won’t hurt anyone in any big way. We can’t please everyone but a change like auto gold isn’t really going to affect anything.
A change like personal loot could affect the game, the community, the drop rates, trading, item rarities, item levels, and many other things
Changes that affect players choices and experience. A bigger stash is added because the old D2 community created mule characters to serve the same purpose, and for auto gold, people are still going to pick up gold but later on in the game it was faster to sell than pick up. Adding auto gold pickup allows it to still have meaning.
I hope this somewhat explains what I’m trying to say about the different types of changes
Your only argument that is actually true is that the community would slightly change, in that players who wanted to play FFA still would, and Ploot players would get to play with an optional distribution system.
Oh yes, i dont see why this should be issue honestly. So runes and gems will be stacked. Whats the issue for players? My only fear is that it can create certain problems in game as there are certain limitations. Different in game mechanics can open new ways for exploits for example.
No actually personal loot could very well change many things about the game. Perhaps you aren’t thinking of how they implemented it in Diablo 3
Items would only drop for their class for the most part, this was on a smaller scale in D2 but a lot more present in D3.
To make sure the game isn’t over-saturated with loot they might make each player get a few items of the total whole that dropped for everyone. This changes the drop rates and the drop amounts
With personal loot trading would probably be less common and just different then the way it was done in D2 because everyone already has their own loot dropped.
In addition, maybe I want a 3 piece set and I take out a boss with a friend and to make it fair with personal loot his chance of getting 1 set item and my change of getting one set item are the same. Perhaps we both get 1 peice of the set of 3 and he gives me the other piece.
I now have 2/3 pieces of the set because of personal loot affecting the drop rate to make it fair for everyone. But for FFA 6 or so items may drop but not 2 of the same set
You also can’t really tell me what’s wrong with having the remaster be like the original. If you loved D2 with FFA loot why can’t it be the same? Maybe its not your preference but that surely would please the majority of D2 fans who have wanted this remaster since possible leaks of it came out
A lot of it is emotional. Which is fine, Emotions are why we play games, there’s nothing wrong with that.
We do have to understand that nostalgia matters. Making changes just because they’re “better” is tough, because this is a remaster, so I do understand these feelings.
To Jackal: No. Those are all separate changes, on top of personal loot.
Diablo 3 has personal loot, but not all personal loot is Diablo 3 loot.
Personal loot has zero to do with item levels, rarities, or drop rates. It also is not bind on account, like some on this forum misunderstood.
If everyone is guaranteed their own amount of items I really don’t see how that’s not going to change the outcome of what players receive whether it is D3s version of personal loot or Poe
Its still changed and yes it does affect a lot of other aspects.
With personal loot no one is technically “guaranteed” any items. It’s an RNG roll made after all existing drop rates are applied. There is not a separate drop roll for each character in the game. It’s a simple RNG roll on distribution.
It doesn’t change what is dropped in the game at all. Zero. None.
The exact number and type of items is the same in a FFA game or Personal loot game.
I see no evidence to support this generalization. For example, I assume (and please correct me if I am wrong), you consider me part of the vocal about wanting D2R optional changes.
I have played D1, D2, and D3 each for thousands of hours. I have never said any of these games are “trash”. I have also spoken about PoE. My comments on PoE are restricted to how this game has 3 co-existing loot systems (FFA, timed, and instanced). My play time in PoE is much, much less than any prior diablo games.
I think you are mistaking seeing elements in a game that someone thinks could be improved equally that the game is trash. This is not true. D2 was my favorite game when it cam out and fore many years after that. That does not mean that the game can not improve. D3 also has a tone of faults and can be improved.
This is worth reiterating. Many of the concerns that have been stated about personal loot is the idea that personal loot leads to potentially 8X drops. This is not true. Total drops are the same.
As poster become better educated, I hope that these types of misconceptions that influence their opinions become less.
Let’s pretend that they implement it the way you are saying and not how they did in D3. Let’s assume that you are right just to play the devil’s advocate.
Now lets also just pretend that theres a game where there’s an enemy disguised as a friend that can join your game and steal loot from time to time unless you play by yourself or with friends.
Part of the Diablo 2 experience is having to risk losses. Sometimes you get that random lobby with a guy who has no regard for team work and takes your items. Its like joining a search and destroy game in COD and your team doesn’t play the objective. There are times when it can be frustrating but there are times when it makes players appreciate team mates more
The ability to have hostile players creates a whole new atmosphere for players to team up together or play against each other.
Having personal loot is like having the game hold you hand and give you free items even if you didn’t work for it.
It still changes the way d2 was played. It changes the way the people experience the game.
D2 is dark and gritty and the game isn’t on your side
Again, what is wrong with having this experience? If you hate it so much why can’t you just wait for D4?
In an 8 player D2 FFA game, each player sees 8X drops in comparison to a personal loot game where each players sees 1X drops. Personal loot already means that you only see 12.5% on average (with binomial variance) of the total drops that you see in a corresponding FFA game.
You can still hostile players in personal loot games.
Nothing. I fully support you having that option.
Option =/= Replacement
Again, what is wrong with have a second optional experience for players who prefer personal loot multiplayer games? You still have your game experience. Nothing is taken away from you.
First of all, D2 didn’t have smart loot at all, so you’re wrong on that too.
Also, we’ve already argued the fallacy of “why don’t you wait for D4.” It’s absurd.
Lots of people want a personal loot option to combat pickit hacks, which were extremely prevalent in D2 for a decade and a half.
For me, it has nothing to do with clicking faster, competition, or anything of that nature.
Pickit programs are client side and difficult to detect. It is for this reason I think an option to make a game where it limits these cheats is warranted. It’s warranted for the same reason they implemented a game limit in original D2 to limit the original pindlebot. It has precedence.
I’m not just talking about you I have seen many other people post things about how D2 wouldn’t even be worth playing nowadays and how the game was trash or not fair to players or not enjoyable
If they don’t like it or don’t think it would be fun I don’t see why they don’t play D4
I also haven’t even mentioned the loot being 8x in a long time. I only mentioned it because that was how it was implemented in D3. The game was over-saturated
People have brought up many good reasons for at least some of the changes that are frequently requested. What you are doing is ignoring them and creating a strawman by saying “everyone else that want those changes don’t give any reasons why it should be changed other than complaining that D2 was trash or because of bots.”
“What would be wrong with sticking with Diablo 2?”
Telling other people to play a different game is neither reasonable nor constructive and won’t convince anyone of your own opinion.
It’s basically like saying: “I don’t give a damn about what you think, so get lost!”
“People” are obviously very divided on what exactly they want D2:R to be, so the only way to solve the issue is to find a compromise.
If you don’t want any changes a good approach would be to advocate for 2 different modes:
One that doesn’t have any changes besides better graphics and some essential bug fixes and one that comes with QoL changes.
To prove this point, D3 has always had instanced personal loot. In the early days of D3, the drop rates were very low and many thought it was to make the auction house more profitable. As the game aged and the auction house was cancelled, the drop rates rose and rose to their current state.
This clearly shows the personal loot and drop rates are different concepts.
This is easily solved with 3 play modes, classic d2, classic LoD, and Modern…keep all the changes on only characters created under the modern tag, i just dont wana hear complaining when 80% of the playerbase is playing modern and the economy sucks on classic, giving players a choice is way better than making a game for 200k boomer players who want the 1999 version of diablo 2 without any QoL changes at all.
There is a difference between telling somebody to go back to playing the original game that is no longer supported, ran with 3rd party software, and doesn’t even run at 30 fps. And telling somebody that if they want all these changes they will find them in the new game coming out that is supported, doesn’t run through 3rd party software. And does run higher than 30 fps
The truth is no matter how you guys feel and want to tell me that my argument for saying people who want change should wait for Diablo 4 is ridiculous, it simply doesn’t change the fact that D2 is not supported and runs horribly and D4 is going to be the most modern Diablo with all of the changes that you might want and then some.
Another difference is that D2R is a remaster that many people do want to be like the classic. But D4 can literally be any mixture of d2 and d3 or even its own new experience and nobody should logically have an issue with a new game being a new experience
