Community Feedback for Improving Itemization

Hi, I haven’t been following this thread because my ideas are superior. Just kidding. My ideas are far superior.

But I have to say that Cannot Be Cursed is awesome and perfect for Tyrael’s Might and I can see it being on Silence too if you don’t buff it further.

I think we should limit the number of changes to 3-4 max, except for maybe the top tier uniques. I think a balanced approach is best.

Appreciate the modesty. JK. This is really a community effort and we try to gather ideas from across the community. For example, DarkHelmets idea for adding Can Not Be Cursed to Silence was brillant and thematic.

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Ok, I get it. You all don´t like the idea to tailor it for spears with +5 Fend as an o-skill. But then let´s make sure that we keep in mind the relatively low costs and not create something broken please!

What is great imho. We have several very good options for 1H weapons already in place and no need for more.

What is also ok. We have several very good bow options availabe. Making a good 6 OS base bow MORE viable would be nice. It´s a lvl 55 RW. Would be ok to make I just good enough to beat the game or make use of good 6 OS bases in mid- to early late game.

Absolutely. If we don´t want to change the receipt we need to counteract this aspect at least a little bit with “slows” to a certain degree.

But Death has no +2 skills and the insance @res. So in my opinion we would not need to adjust the damage to a death-like level?

Agree here.

Does that affect the affix limit and makes a difference?

Agree with you here. That would all be interesting modifiers especially for 2H options. Can not be cursed would be a really strong option for such a cheap item imho, but ok for my, if we are not going crazy on the rest then! DR would fit the defensive theme we have right now. But then we should not add too much dmg affixes again!

That´s a tricky one. More later below! But basicly that would make it beeing broken imho.

Would that be enough to gain a poison like effect and act1-3 monsters would die? Otherwise I would not go this way. I assume not enough to kill easy enemies. We have several OW options already (e.g. Death) and don´t need more imho!

We have BotD for 6 OS already. So do we really need another one in this spot?

So here are my concerns!

Whatever we improve it would probably be no problem for all 2H options (bows, 2h swords, axes and spears and on top PB as well). But what would be the case for 1H options? What about a dual wielding Zerker-Silence Barb?

  • 4 all skills?
  • 2*75% @ res? +150% in total really? Do you think that is a good idea? Dual Wizardspike are ok, since they will be allways a swap options with low dmg and no skills for find item, but dual Silence? There are very few 1H-weapon options with such high @res right now (really only swap weapon Wizzy and Hoto) and on top +300 ED on your superior Zerker-axe? On top super solid +22% ML, 60% MF, +4 MAEK; +40 FHR.

We need to be cautious here! Especially the @res is so powerfull (with natural resist you would not need any res anywhere really) if we increase the dmg modifiers to a very solid level.

So after your comments over the past days I would opt for only change blinds with slows and increase ED from +200 to +250-285% and leave it this way. Would not be an BIS end game option but solid and good enough for SSF if your found a Vex and are playing a melee char or found a really nice non eth base you would not like to make a BotD instead.

:man_shrugging:

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I think Cannot Be Cursed is really fitting for Silence and makes it special. How about adding this with a modest buff to ED and remove hit blinds target? Nothing crazy.

Silence
Dol Eld Hel Ist Tir Vex
Weapons
+2 To All Skills
+20% Increased Attack Speed
+20% Faster Hit Recovery
+200% Enhanced Damage
+75% Damage To Undead (Eld)
+50 To Attack Rating Against Undead (Eld)
11% Mana Stolen Per Hit (Vex)
Hit Blinds Target +33
Hit Causes Monster To Flee 25% (Dol)
All Resistances +75
+2 To Mana After Each Kill (Tir)
Requirements -20% (Hel)
30% Better Chance Of Getting Magic Items (Ist)

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Add Can Not Be Cursed
    • Change E. Damage to 250-275%
    • Remove Hit Blinds Target +33
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Without counteracting the DOL any change is worthless really (would remain useless for any purpose)! :man_shrugging:

So it needs slows mandatorily! The question would be how much (since I didn´t crunch the numbers yet…) but would assume that it would need at least 33% (like Eternity and Clay Golem at lvl 4) better 50% (like Decrepify, if it stacks, then less of cause). Will look that up later but lets assume 33% is not crazy even if a barb dual wield it with 2x1H weapons.

Can Not Be Cursed is a super strong affix and I like it. Since we are at the affix limit already I would propose removing FHR as well (it is super defensive already imho) to add Slows and would lower @res to make it not crazy if dual wielded to lets say already super strong 40-50%.

So that would result in the following:

Proposed Buffs:

  • Add Can Not Be Cursed
  • Add Slows Target By 33%
  • Change E. Damage to 250-275%
  • Change All Resistances +75 to +40-50%
  • Remove Hit Blinds Target +33
  • Remove +20% Faster Hit Recovery

That could do the trick in my honest opinion! It would be really good for a Vex/Ist, but not end-game OP and probably not a merc option.

But still…it would be not really good for most 2H options like spears or polearms. Bows might be ok for the price. But my spear I startetd the discussion initially, would continue to gather dust. :thinking:

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from Diablowiki > So would opt for 33% gents :slight_smile:

Slows Target

Slows Target is a that slows the movement and attack/casting rate of the affected target. Targets that are slowed turn blue as though they were chilled, but there is no cold damage associated with this modifier.

Calculating the total amount a monster or player will be slowed is fairly complicated, and requires knowledge of their initial speed, their type, and must also factor in properties such as Extra Fast monsters, Holy Freeze, Fanaticism, and more.

The effects are capped in various ways:

  • 85% against attack speed

  • 75% against run/walk

  • 50% per source* (equipment/different players/skills/etc) against players/act bosses

  • 90% per source* for normal monsters but at 90% for them.

  • A “source” is an item with this modifier on it. Multiple “sources” add up the slowing time, so using multiple items that grant Slows Target will cause a cumulative effect, and make the target really slow.

Caps on Slowing

The most slowing possible to a player is limiting their speed to one yard/second. (Default is 4 y/s.)

The most slowing possible to monsters varies by their different base speeds, but it’s generally around 25% of their normal movement speed. (This is less than the 90% slowing from each item, but monsters with Extra Fast and/or Fanaticism will be much faster than usual to start with, so can be slowed more than 75% total.

Attack rates can’t be slowed below 15% of the base animation rate for the attack, but as with movement speed, monsters that have a faster than usual attack might require multiple items of slows target to reach their minimum speed.

Casting rates are effected just the same as attack rates.

Note that Slows Target is banned in most PVP duels, since it is so powerful it completely unbalances some matchups.

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I think we should limit number of changes for RW’s to 4, so 2 additions and 2 removals. We need to keep things manageable for the devs. This is further balanced by keeping high all resist but then leaving ED alone. Also, as this RW has +2 skills, no need to adjust ED. :man_mage:

Silence
Dol Eld Hel Ist Tir Vex
Weapons
+2 To All Skills
+20% Increased Attack Speed
+20% Faster Hit Recovery
+200% Enhanced Damage
+75% Damage To Undead (Eld)
+50 To Attack Rating Against Undead (Eld)
11% Mana Stolen Per Hit (Vex)
Hit Blinds Target +33
Hit Causes Monster To Flee 25% (Dol)
All Resistances +75
+2 To Mana After Each Kill (Tir)
Requirements -20% (Hel)
30% Better Chance Of Getting Magic Items (Ist)

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Add Can Not Be Cursed
    • Add Slows Target By 33%
    • Remove Hit Blinds Target +33
    • Remove +20% Faster Hit Recovery
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Death doesn’t have Open Wounds. It has 50% Crushing Blow and very nice Deadly Strike that when combined with Highlords + Gores yields 100% Deadly Strike(provided your character is of a high enough level). It also has solid %Enhanced Damage + Indestructible but lacks IAS and +Skills.

Also Barbs won’t be dual-wielding Silence so there won’t be Barbs rocking +150 Resistance. I mean they could do it right now and they don’t, especially not when options such as Grief or BotD exist. As for the current suggested changes for Silence, that sounds more than adequate.

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Not sure if changing two rows in a text-file would be really a big deal. But ok with me!

But what do you think about viability for 2H weapons?

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To be honest, I think Silence will shine as an off-hand 1H weapon with Can Not Be Cursed, +2 Skills and +75 All Res. This would really give in purpose, but I don’t think it will be optimal for a 2H weapon. But we gave it purpose!

If we want to improve a RW for 2H weapon viability, I suggest we look at Kingslayer which we haven’t talked about. The main reason to make Kingslayer in Phase Blade is for its attack speed, otherwise you could make in 2H Glorious Axe or Colossus Sword (even 2H Champion Sword or Feral Axe with 4 OS max). That’s why I would propose to buff IAS, add indestructible to take advantage of Eth weapons and remove GF.

Kingslayer
Mal Um Gul Fal
Swords, Axes
+30% Increased Attack Speed
+230-270% Enhanced Damage
-25% Target Defense
20% Bonus To Attack Rating (Gul)
33% Chance of Crushing Blow
50% Chance of Open Wounds (Um)
+1 To Vengeance
Prevent Monster Heal (Mal)
+10 To Strength (Fal)
40% Extra Gold From Monsters

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Add Indestructible
    • Remove 40% Gold Find
    • Change IAS to +50%

Will see…still a bit concerned that the 75@res might be broken. Would be a very solid Act5 second option kind of. Hope dmg is to low to make dual wield it a thing.

Kingslayer is not a super great RW due to the modest dmg but also not expensive. OW, CB and BtAR are super usefull though. So I don´t have the feeling that it needs a lot. A solid mid- to early end game weapon. But not BIS.

However I´m not in favour of the Indestrucktible mod here! With Oath we already have a very similar (and also) 4 OS option in place. Same with IAS. Oath has +50% as well…

Which direction should it be going to not start a competition with other RW and especially our uniques? Removing GF would opens up other choices.

How about focussing more about the vengeancetopic? We could add freezes target (since vengeance already has) for more CC or poison dmg since vengeance has none. So no problem with immunities (but we should not add too much dmg in that case). Other option would to put some mind dmg (+5-10 would be already really good).

But again. Not too much needed here. Otherwise it would weaken our buffs on mid-lvl uniques again…

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The thing is 75@res already exists on RW, but nobody uses it. Dual wielding would not be optimal as the real buff of Can Not Be Cursed doesn’t stack. Plus the damage is fairly low compared to other options.

We could add freezes target to Kingslayer, but I think a better proposal would be to straight up buff Vengeance to +5, and this change is fairly modest as the elemental damage only increases from 70% to 94%. Adding on-weapon +max damage would also help vengeance’s elemental damage…

Kingslayer
Mal Um Gul Fal
Swords, Axes
+30% Increased Attack Speed
+230-270% Enhanced Damage
-25% Target Defense
20% Bonus To Attack Rating (Gul)
33% Chance of Crushing Blow
50% Chance of Open Wounds (Um)
+1 To Vengeance
Prevent Monster Heal (Mal)
+10 To Strength (Fal)
40% Extra Gold From Monsters

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Add +10-15 To Max Damage
    • Change Vengeance to +5
    • Remove 40% Gold Find
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It´s not used because the Dol makes it unusable. But I have the feeling, that the proposal will be allright. So plz up OP accordingly. :slight_smile:

What do you and the others think about that?

Agree! Would stuck to the flavour (Vengeance) and not decreasing the value of unique swords in that range. That would increase price/performance ratio without going to far.
So you have Voice of Reason, Spirit, Kingslayer with 4 OS option and Oath for the eth ones. That is solid. :+1:

PS: You need to update Tomb Reaver in the Op :slight_smile:

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Just came across this well-written post with a lot of suggestion that must’ve taken a long time to put down and organize, not to mention coming up with what should be done with which items.

While I disagree with many of them (some are pointless, other seem to be stupid to me, like sacrificing a Zod rune for “infinite arrows”), I couldn’t stop but laugh at this:

The what???

2 Likes

As we all have a passion for D2R, it has been fun to discuss itemization with members. If you have time, please provide feedback on your thoughts and improvements, with a special focus on uniques. This thread has been a compilation of many thoughts from many members. Point taken, I’ll go ahead and remove Zod recipes for infinite arrows/bolts as it seems silly. :+1:

Unfortunately, you might be right, but hope you’re wrong.

I updated OP based on previous discussion:


Uniques

Tomb Reaver
2H Damage: (99-125) To (450-570)
Req Level: 84
Req Strength: 165
Req Dexterity: 103
+200-280% Enhanced Damage
+150-230% Damage To Undead
+60% Increased Attack Speed
+250-350 To Attack Rating Against Undead
All Resistances +30-50
10% Reanimate As: Returned
+10-14 Life After Each Kill
+50-80% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
+4 To Light Radius
Socketed (1-3)

  • Buffs:
    • Add +30% Chance Of Deadly Strike
    • Change Reanimate to 15%
    • Change Required Lvl to 74

Gloom’s Trap
Defense: 90-102
Req Level: 36
Req Strength: 58
+120-150% Enhanced Defense
5% Mana Stolen Per Hit
Increase Maximum Mana 15%
Regenerate Mana 15%
+15 To Vitality
-3 To Light Radius

  • Buffs:
    • Add +150 Attack Rating
    • Add Half Freeze Duration
    • Add +15% Faster Hit Recovery

Runewords

Silence
Dol Eld Hel Ist Tir Vex
Weapons
+2 To All Skills
+20% Increased Attack Speed
+20% Faster Hit Recovery
+200% Enhanced Damage
+75% Damage To Undead (Eld)
+50 To Attack Rating Against Undead (Eld)
11% Mana Stolen Per Hit (Vex)
Hit Blinds Target +33
Hit Causes Monster To Flee 25% (Dol)
All Resistances +75
+2 To Mana After Each Kill (Tir)
Requirements -20% (Hel)
30% Better Chance Of Getting Magic Items (Ist)

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Add Can Not Be Cursed
    • Add Slows Target By 33%
    • Remove Hit Blinds Target +33
    • Remove +20% Faster Hit Recovery

Eternity
Amn Ber Ist Sol Sur
Melee Weapons
Indestructible
+260-310% Enhanced Damage
+9 To Minimum Damage (Sol)
7% Life Stolen Per Hit (Amn)
+20% Chance of Crushing Blow (Ber)
Hit Blinds Target (Sur)
Slows Target By 33%
Regenerate Mana 16%
Replenish Life +16
Cannot Be Frozen
30% Better Chance Of Magic Items (Ist)
Level 8 Revive (88 Charges)

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Add 15% Reanimate As: Apparition
    • Add +30% Increased Attack Speed
    • Remove Level 8 Revive (88 Charges)
    • Remove Regenerate Mana 16%

Kingslayer
Mal Um Gul Fal
Swords, Axes
+30% Increased Attack Speed
+230-270% Enhanced Damage
-25% Target Defense
20% Bonus To Attack Rating (Gul)
33% Chance of Crushing Blow
50% Chance of Open Wounds (Um)
+1 To Vengeance
Prevent Monster Heal (Mal)
+10 To Strength (Fal)
40% Extra Gold From Monsters

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Add +10-15 To Max Damage
    • Change Vengeance to +5
    • Remove 40% Gold Find

Crafting

  • Removed Quiver Recipes shown below.
Quiver of Arrows + Zod Rune = Quiver of Endless Arrows (infinite qty)
Quiver of Bolts + Zod Rune = Quiver of Endless Bolts (infinite qty)
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Blizzard says you get nothing and will launch season 6 a day after Last Epoch launch.

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“The idea behind Diablo II: Resurrected was that we have planned updates/new things for every new season”, yep that aged liked milk.

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Time to change the thread title to Season 7 - Calling to Improve Itemization

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Honestly, I don´t need every season changes, but there is some work to do to make the game an even more outstanding piece of software. If they then stop adding stuff, that would be fine for more. Every 2-3 season some !well balanced! new items (uniques or RWs) would be nice, but if not. Ok with my :slight_smile:


Ok here is a new one. As discussed several month ago here:

For a good reason we only spoke cautiously about RW. Mainly buffing some a little bit (without making them too strong), expanding bases and nerfing the few broken ones a bit.

I would love to talk about adding one new one to utilize really good bases with strong staff mods. I had two items in mind especially 2 OS Claws and 3 OS 2H staffs. Both viable with real good staff mods. For 2 OS claws the updated Wind RW would be viable. So no need to introduce a new one for this use case.

And I´ve think there is room for an 3 OS staff RW between Leaf (Fire) and Memory (ES, Static).

Since I don´t want to lower the value of our proposes uniqes in this lvl range, I´d strive for an generally weak option on a naked 3 OS staff. But maybe viable on a 3 OS staff with the right +3 skills staff mods attached and with a cold them (Leaf=Fire, Memory=Lightning)?

It should have only +1 or +2 all skills or +3 cold skills and only max +25 FCR (less than lvl 28 Razorswitch and Memory RW) . The highest rune determins the lvl req. but Dol, Shael, Sol are useless in this range. So I would go for a lvl 35 Io rune with +10 Vita. And maybe dual Tir (+2x2 MAEK)?

So:
+1-2 all Skills (you could reroll) or +3 cold skills (each sorc only)
+15-25 FCR

  • 10 Vita (Io)
  • 4 MAEK (2xTir)

What else? +3 Shiver armor and +3 ice blast? CtC lvl 5-10 Frost Nova when struck would fit nicely as well?

Do you see any room for this here next to our proposed Chromatic Ire or Skull Collector? Or should that stay unique territory? If not, a fitting name for such a baby? I opt for Cold breath or Cold breeze?

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