That would be a solid new direction! What do you think about limiting rolls on the skills (maybe partially) and increasing ED a bit to differentiate more against Arreats?
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To help differentiate, instead of increasing ED and/or limiting rolls on Demonhorn’s Edge, we should buff to be more offensive as Arreat’s is more defensive (ED, all resist, FHR). As Life Stolen Per Hit is quite low 3-6% for hell, we should increase to 6-9%. This would make helm more viable for Act 5 merc as well…
Demonhorn’s Edge
Destroyer Helm
Defense: 345-408
Req Level: 61
Req Strength: 151
+120-160% Enhanced Defense
10% Increased Attack Speed
3-6% Life Stolen Per Hit
Attacker Takes Damage of 55-77
+1-3 To Warcries (Barbarian Only)
+1-3 To Masteries (Barbarian Only)
+1-3 To Combat Skills (Barbarian Only)
- Buffs:
- Add +150% Damage To Demons
- Add +30% Chance of Open Wounds
- Change Life Stolen Per Hit to 6-9%
- Change IAS to +15%
Good question, not sure. What do other people think?
1 Like
As I said in another post. Act 2 can’t use Shields. Therefore, Prayer A2 has nothing to worry about. Devotion is purely for Act 3 and is an alternative to Phoenix for recovering Life for the Mercenary. It’s true that Cure + Devotion are incompatible in that Prayer from Devotion won’t be doubled by Cure’s Cleansing but then again I wouldn’t have Cure on A3 when Flickering Flame exists(hence why I submitted Permafrost and Capricious for Cold/Lightning variants).
Main characters could use Devotion but the life recovery benefit is marginal. Currently Clerics are limited to x2 Prayer bonus with natural Meditation and Cleansing(from Plague/Cure) but with Devotion, they can add Prayer aura for an additional 17-21 Life. Not much but it’s something and given the Fade and other perks from Devotion, it might see use despite its cost. Other classes could use it too but the odds aren’t that high.
Oh and one more thing: @Charles: Perhaps have Medium/Heavy Shields have innate Physical Reduction(aka Damage Reduced by X). Shields, when blocking, can reduce damage to zero so it kind of makes sense that damage they don’t block that they can defray some of the damage(albeit modestly). Not sure what I’d do with Necromancer Off-Hand though…
2 Likes
I updated OP based on previous discussion:
Uniques
Ravenlore
Sky Spirit
Defense: 343-390
Req Level: 74
Req Strength: 113
+120-150% Enhanced Defense
+7 To Raven (Druid Only)
+3 To Elemental Skills (Druid Only)
+20-30 To Energy
-10-20% To Enemy Fire Resistance
All Resistances +15-25
- Buffs:
- Add +15-25% Magic Find
- Maximum Number of Ravens Increased By 3
Steel Shade
Armet
Defense: 300-345
Req Level: 62
Req Strength: 109
+100-130% Enhanced Defense
Replenish Life +10-18
+4-8% Mana Stolen Per Hit
+5-11 Fire Absorb
- Buffs:
- Add 1-2 Open Sockets
- Add +50-100% Gold Find
- Add +15% Increased Block
- Change Fire Absorb to +0-24 (0.25 Per Clvl)
Demonhorn’s Edge
Destroyer Helm
Defense: 345-408
Req Level: 61
Req Strength: 151
+120-160% Enhanced Defense
10% Increased Attack Speed
3-6% Life Stolen Per Hit
Attacker Takes Damage of 55-77
+1-3 To Warcries (Barbarian Only)
+1-3 To Masteries (Barbarian Only)
+1-3 To Combat Skills (Barbarian Only)
- Buffs:
- Add +150% Damage To Demons
- Add +30% Chance of Open Wounds
- Change Life Stolen Per Hit to 6-9%
- Change IAS to +10-15%
Valkyrie Wing
Winged Helm
Defense: 247-297
Req Level: 44
Req Strength: 115
+150-200% Defense
+1-2 To Amazon Skills
20% Faster Run/Walk
20% Faster Hit Recovery
+2-4 To Mana After Each Kill
- Buffs:
- Add 1-2 Open Sockets
- Add +3 To Valkyrie (Amazon Only)
- Change Mana After Each Kill to +5
- Change Amazon Skills to +2
Howltusk
Great Helm
Defense: 64
Req Level: 25
Req Strength: 63
35% Damage Taken Goes to Mana
+80% Enhanced Defense
Magic Damage Reduced By 2
Attacker Takes Damage of 3
Knockback
Hit Causes Monster To Flee 25%
- Buffs:
- Add +2 To Throwing Mastery
- Add +10% Increased Attack Speed
- Change Attacker Takes Damage to 10
Gravepalm
Sharkskin Gloves
Defense: 96-112
Req Level: 32
Req Strength: 20
+140-180% Enhanced Defense
+100-200% Damage To Undead
+100-200 To Attack Rating Against Undead
+10 To Energy
+10 To Strength
- Buffs:
- Adds 6-36 Cold Damage
- Add +3-5% To Cold Skill Damage
- Add 5% Reanimate As: Returned
Venom Grip
Demonhide Gloves
Defense: 97-118
Req Level: 29
Req Strength: 20
+130-160% Enhanced Defense
+15-25 Defense
+5% Chance of Crushing Blow
+60 Poison Damage Over 4 Seconds
5% Life Stolen Per Hit
5% To Max Poison Resist
Poison Resist +30%
- Buffs:
- Add +1 To Venom
- Add Prevent Monster Heal
- Change Required Lvl to 30
- Remove +60 Poison Damage Over 4 Seconds
Djinn Slayer
Ataghan
1H Damage: (75-88) To (133-156)
Req Level: 65
Req Strength: 138
Req Dexterity: 95
+190-240% Enhanced Damage
+100-150% Damage To Demons
Adds 250-500 Fire Damage
3-6% Mana Stolen Per Hit
+3-7 Lightning Absorb
+200-300 To Attack Rating Against Demons
Socketed (1-2)
- Buffs:
- Add Lvl 5-7 Redemption Aura When Equipped
- Change D. To Demons to +300-350%
- Remove 3-6% Mana Stolen Per Hit
Cranebeak
War Spike
1H Damage: (102-120) To (163-192)
Req Level: 63
Req Strength: 133
Req Dexterity: 54
+240-300% Enhanced Damage
+40% Increased Attack Speed
-25% Target Defense
Adds 1-305 Lightning Damage
20-50% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
Level 8 Raven (15 charges)
- Buffs:
- Add +3-5 To Raven
- Remove Lvl 8 Raven (15 charges)
Endlesshail
Double Bow
2H Damage: (30-35) to (72-83)
Req Level: 36
Req Strength: 58
Req Dexterity: 73
+180-220% Enhanced Damage
Adds 15-30 Cold Damage
Cold Resist +35%
+50 Defense vs. Missile
+40 To Mana
+3-5 To Strafe (Amazon Only)
- Buffs:
- Add 10% CtC Lvl 10 Blizzard On Striking
- Remove (Amazon Only) from Strafe
Wisp Projector
Ring
Req Level: 76
10% CtC Lvl 16 Lightning On Striking
Lightning Absorb 10-20%
10-20% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
Level 7 Spirit of Barbs (11 charges)
Level 5 Heart of Wolverine (13 charges)
Level 2 Oak Sage (15 charges)
- Buffs:
- Add 10% CtC Lvl 6 Static Field On Striking
- Add 1-120 Lightning Damage
1 Like
Very good.
About limiting the downsides of shields I´m not really sure. Would rather buff defense a lot to make it worthwhile. Especially with regard to spirit bases. I guess the downsides are more than appropriate tbh (lower strength for that bases, but penalty). What do others think? DarkHelmet habu?
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Defense on Shields isn’t the issue as I see it since if you go for Max Block, the difference in a 25 Defense Shield and a 150 Defense Shield isn’t going to matter much unless you have Defensive buffs that magnify the difference substantially(ex: Iron Skin, Shout, Defiance aura, etc.), Even so, I think the Defense boost they provide is more than adequate. What plagues Shields, as I see it, is the limited number of 4 Socket options(shoehorning you into using Monarchs for all Non-Paladins…) and the Strength required to equip them(156 for Monarch is a lot… and no one bothers to use Aegis or Ward because there’s no benefit in doing so besides slightly higher Block Chance). I’d aadd more 4 Socket options, adjust the Strength requirements lower OR adjust Block chance on Medium/Heavy Shields much higher such that the Stat points invested into Strength are off-set by needing less Dexterity for Max Block(and perhaps giving Medium/Heavy Shields a small innate PDR bonus compared to their Light counterparts).
2 Likes
Under General Changes section, we did propose to increase the max sockets for a few shields. For 4 socket shields, we did add Pavise and Hyperion to that list. This change should help alleviate this issue.
| Shields - Max Sockets | Current | Improved |
|---|---|---|
| Defender | 1 | 2 |
| Barbed Shield | 2 | 3 |
| Luna | 2 | 3 |
| Pavise | 3 | 4 |
| Hyperion | 3 | 4 |
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That’s a start but I think the biggest thing as to why Shields get such a bad rap right now is how stupidly strong Spirit happens to be. If Spirit was a 3 socket runeword as opposed to 4, then the issue wouldn’t be as glaring since you can use Normal tier Shields to utilize it. Yet because it requires 4 sockets, it massively restricts non-Paladin players in what Shields they can use. Hence if I was to “nerf” Spirit, I would propose it be changed to the following:
Old recipe: Tal Thul Ort Amn
New recipe: Ith Tir Sol ← mini Honor
Old Weapon:
+2 To All Skills
+25-35% Faster Cast Rate (varies)
+55% Faster Hit Recovery
Adds 1-50 Lightning Damage
Adds 3-14 Cold Damage 3 Second Duration (Normal)
+75 Poison Damage Over 5 Seconds
7% Life Stolen Per Hit
+250 Defense Vs. Missile
+22 To Vitality
+89-112 To Mana (varies)
+3-8 Magic Absorb (varies)
New Weapon:
+1 to All Skills
10-20% Faster Cast Rate
+12 to Vitality
20% Faster Hit Recovery
+100 Defense vs. Missile
+20-50 Mana(varies)
+3 to 8 Magic Absorb(varies)
+9 to Damage(Ith + Sol)
2 to Mana After Each Kill(Tir)
Old Shield:
+2 To All Skills
+25-35% Faster Cast Rate (varies)
+55% Faster Hit Recovery
+250 Defense Vs. Missile
+22 To Vitality
+89-112 To Mana (varies)
Cold Resist +35%
Lightning Resist +35%
Poison Resist +35%
+3-8 Magic Absorb (varies)
Attacker Takes Damage of 14
New Shield:
+1 All Skills
10-20% Faster Cast Rate
20% Faster Hit Recovery
+100 Defense vs. Missile
+12 to Vitality
+20 to 50 to Mana(varies)
+3 to 8 Magic Absorb(varies)
15% Damage Taken Goes To Mana(Ith)
2 to Mana After Each Kill(Tir)
Damage Reduced by 7(Sol)
You reduce Spirit from 4 runes to 3 runes and the need to expand Shields from 3 sockets to 4 is basically removed. Ditto having to hunt for 4 socket Crystal Swords and what not because now we can get Spirit in Normal Difficulty as opposed to having to run Normal Cows or w/e to get 4 socket Weapon bases.
Keep in mind… that Spirit suggestion is just something off the top of my head. I don’t expect it to be adopted whatsoever but the whole reason behind needing more 4 Socket Shields is explicitly because of Spirit.
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Agreed. We did propose a pretty hefty nerf to Spirit Shield (shown below), but purposely avoided changing runes that make up the runeword as it was too drastic of a change. In the end, I think this nerf along with adding Pavise and Hyperion to the list of 4 socket shields should be enough to improve shields.
Spirit (Shield)
Tal Thul Ort Amn
Shield
+2 To All Skills
+25-35% Faster Cast Rate
+55% Faster Hit Recovery
+250 Defense vs. Missiles
+22 To Vitality
+89-112 To Mana
Cold Resist +35% (Thul)
Lightning Resist +35% (Ort)
Poison Resist +35% (Tal)
+3-8 Magic Absorb
Attacker Takes Damage of 14 (Amn)
- Proposed Nerfs:
- Change All Skills to +1
- Change FHR to +25%
- Change Mana to +59-82
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Those changes are ok but I don’t think they quite go far enough. Namely I think you ought to include FCR along with it and drop it from 25-35 to like 15-25, if not 10-20 like I have above. The reason for this is because Unique and Rare Shields should be at the forefront, not Runewords if we can help it. Lidless currently grants +1/20FCR with proposed buffs moving it to 1-2/20-30. You cut Spirit’s FCR and suddenly it’s not so godly of an end-game runeword for Shields.
Also speaking of Rare Shields, Apprentice and Magus Suffix should roll on them to give players a chance of getting a Rare with 10-20% FCR on it. Probably won’t change things too much but options certainly help.
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I think nerfing FCR by 10% on Spirit sounds good to me. What do other people think?..
Spirit (Shield)
Tal Thul Ort Amn
Shield
+2 To All Skills
+25-35% Faster Cast Rate
+55% Faster Hit Recovery
+250 Defense vs. Missiles
+22 To Vitality
+89-112 To Mana
Cold Resist +35% (Thul)
Lightning Resist +35% (Ort)
Poison Resist +35% (Tal)
+3-8 Magic Absorb
Attacker Takes Damage of 14 (Amn)
- Nerfs:
- Change All Skills to +1
- Change FCR to +15-25%
- Change FHR to +25%
- Change Mana to +59-82
Spirit (Sword)
Tal Thul Ort Amn
Sword
+2 To All Skills
+25-35% Faster Cast Rate
+55% Faster Hit Recovery
Adds 1-50 Lightning Damage (Ort)
Adds 3-14 Cold Damage (Thul)
+75 Poison Damage Over 5 Seconds (Tal)
7% Life Stolen Per Hit (Amn)
+250 Defense vs. Missiles
+22 To Vitality
+89-112 To Mana
+3-8 Magic Absorb
- Nerfs:
- Change All Skills to +1
- Change FCR to +15-25%
- Change FHR to +25%
- Change Mana to +59-82
2 Likes
Obviously nerfing Spirit will result in a lot of discussion among the community. As we allready have seen in this thread a couple times. But thats ok, we offered several very good and balanced alternative imho.
I´m a big fan of nerfing it, since it´s so stupidly OP for the given costs. I´m with Charles that we should not change the runes itself. Nerfing it will end up in a million old ones in stash and new one beeing weaker. But thats ok. Doesn´t affect new seasons at least.
We have two major problems.
A) too early availability for the shield on paladins and
B) too strong for an early lvl 25 sword leaving almost every unique beeing useless.
Limiting both to +1 skills would be the easiest and most appropriate nerf adressing both points.
We buffed lvl 37 Splendor (+1 skills, 20 FRC, 20 MF) with 20 FRW and 100 GF. This puts that in a much better spot with a slightly different use-case. Will be good on voodoo heads from this on. This is an all around decent change (solid but not crazy by any means).
Splendor
Eth Lum
Shields
+1 To All Skills
+10% Faster Cast Rate
+20% Faster Block Rate
+60-100% Enhanced Defense
+10 To Energy (Lum)
Regenerate Mana 15% (Eth)
50% Extra Gold From Monsters
20% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
+3 To Light Radius
- Proposed Buffs:
- Add +20% Faster Run/Walk
- Remove +3 To Light Radius
- Change Gold Find to 100%
I still would like to see pally shields beeing limited to 3 OS as well!!! Having only maybe the last two of the exceptionals roll 4 OS (Royal and Gilded). The lower strength is what it is and doesn´t pose a big problem imho! 
New Moser Blessed Circle is a different target group. New Visceratuant is an early game item just beeing slightly usefull now for lvl 28. New Radament’s Sphere is poison focussed (so not really a competitor on lvl 50).
Next comes New Lidless at lvl 41
Lidless Wall
Grim Shield
Defense: 271-347
Req Level: 41
Req Strength: 58
+80-130% Enhanced Defense
+1 To All Skills
Increase Maximum Mana 10%
+20% Faster Cast Rate
+3-5 To Mana After Each Kill
+10 To Energy
+1 To Light Radius
- Buffs:
- Change All Skills to +1-2
- Change FCR to 20-30%
- Change Energy to +30-50
- Change Mana After Each Kill to +5
Lower strength, later lvl req. but the chance to roll 1-2 skills and other usefull additions (especially adressing mana issues, not making Insight that important) placing it in a better spot compared to Spirit (if you find a +2skills one, this will hold some value now, but is frequent enough to get your hands on one). And I really like that (would be keen on testing this with new Que-Heagans tbh).
So that selections is really balanced im my oppinion (if pally shields only 4 OS on elites).
So now Spirit:
Reduced mana and FHR is more then appropriate! +1 Skills as well for the given cost. If we could design it to beeing late game for everybody I would leave +2. But thats not possible without changeing everything in the game. So we go +1 
Capping FCR is something I´m not sure about. It is very helpfull to have +35% for Sorcs (youve to roll several to hit that spot). By changing pally shields it would be an only end-game item for every class. So I could see us leaving the FRC roll…
I was not super keen on extending 4 OS to bases with less strength. But would support that, since many of you backed this. But thats makes strength even less important.
I think it´s kind of sad that nearly every build guide is like “put enough in strength and dex for your gear and the rest into…”. But Enigma is part of that problem too. But anyhow.
The new entrypoint for Spirit will be the lvl 48 Hyperion with 127 strength req. But on a medium shield. Heavy Pavis with 133 but already at lvl 25. I guess thats ok. Splendor will work in a normal shield. So I guess thats evened out.
All around good. Still strong that early, but leaves muuuuch more room for early uniques. And it is not really your main weapon for late game due to better but more expensive alternatives.
We could do one more think to help even melee. We could leave higher FCR on the shield and on the sword lower FCR but higher FHR? That would solve some problems even more/better and is more thematic kind off?
Sword: 20% FCR, 25-35% FHR
Shield: 25-35% FCR, 20% FHR
What do you think about this?
You can’t have different attribute ranges depending on what base is utilized. If the runeword yields 25-35% FCR, it yields 25-35% FCR, regardless if its a Weapon or a Shield. Meaning if we nerf FCR, it’s applied to both Weapon bases and Shield bases alike. The only time “attributes” change is on the runes themselves. Runes have Weapon attributes and Armor/Shield attributes, hence which base is utilized determines what attribute you get.
The reason I advocated for nerfing Spirit’s FCR is because for the cost, it’s simply the best Shield runeword bar none. No Unique Shield can match it on FCR and if the goal is to push up Rares and Uniques to the forefront for use, then this is one area on Spirit that has to be addressed. The amount of +Skills isn’t necessarily as important, although +2 for the cost is insanely good. I mean Honor takes 5 runes(Amn + Sol among them) and only grants +1 to skills(no FCR). Lore in Helms grants +1(no FCR), as does Splendor’s 2 runes(including Lum) and only yields 10% FCR on Shields. Yet for 4 CHEAP runes, I get not only more +Skills than those runewords, I get 25-35 FCR that dwarfs all other competition. Even Obsession can’t beat it and it was meant to encourage 2-H Staff use rolls eyes
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Of course. You’re right. Do I’m good with nerfing FCR as well. And your reference to give an incentive to use 2H-staffs is a very important one too!
You can make a workaround by having separate runeword definitions with different bases and properties, which just share the same name and socketables (runes_.
This is how Rainbow Facets are defined - they are actually 8 separate uniques (4 elements × 2 procs - unlike numeric ranges, those couldn’t be made random) with the same name.
1 Like
I wanted to discuss non-Amazon bow builds. As we recently made +3-5 Strafe on Endlesshail an o-skill (which is a cool idea), I would like to suggest we add Multiple Shot as an o-skill to Rogue’s Bow (shown below). This normal bow would be a great option for non-Amazon bow builds in the early game and used as a stepping stone until you get access to exceptional bows…
Rogue’s Bow
Composite Bow
2H Damage: 5 to 12
Req Level: 20
Req Strength: 25
Req Dexterity: 35
+40-60% Enhanced Damage
+100% Damage to Undead
+30% Deadly Strike
50% Increased Attack Speed
+60 to Attack Rating
All Resistances +10
- Buffs:
- Add +3-5 To Multiple Shot
Lastly, revisiting Eaglehorn, I think adding +15% DS on this bow doesn’t really do much to improve viability for non-Amazon bow builds. Instead, I would like to suggest adding Piercing Attack that scales with clvl…
Eaglehorn
Crusader Bow
2H Damage: 45 to (190-313)
Req Level: 69
Req Strength: 97
Req Dexterity: 122
+200% Enhanced Damage
+2-198% Enhanced Maximum Damage
+1 To Amazon Skills
+6-594 To Attack Rating
+25 To Dexterity
Ignores Target’s Defense
- Buffs:
- Add +0-29% Piercing Attack (0.3% Per Clvl)
- Change +1 To Amazon Skills to +1 To All Skills
… ok ok, thats to much for the devs. So I would keep it simple and leave it as it is 
That would be nice. Like it and my be emough to be viable early on or just for fun.
Is this enough? I would fear that it is nowhere near a WF, Ice or Faith bow? ITD is nice but no IAS on the same lvl. So I would assume we could do both and even put 2 OS on it (as discussed month ago)?
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I guess we could put 1-2 OS on Eaglehorn, would make it a solid option for any character. What do other people think?
Eaglehorn
Crusader Bow
2H Damage: 45 to (190-313)
Req Level: 69
Req Strength: 97
Req Dexterity: 122
+200% Enhanced Damage
+2-198% Enhanced Maximum Damage
+1 To Amazon Skills
+6-594 To Attack Rating
+25 To Dexterity
Ignores Target’s Defense
- Buffs:
- Add 1-2 Open Sockets
- Add +33% Piercing Attack
- Change +1 To Amazon Skills to +1 To All Skills
I was also thinking we could make Seraph’s Hymn more versatile for the paladin by having both bonuses for Defensive/Offensive Auras…
Seraph’s Hymn
Amulet
Req Level: 65
+2 To All Skills
+1-2 To Defensive Auras (Paladin Only)
+20-50% Damage To Demons
+150-250 To Attack Rating Against Demons
+20-50% Damage To Undead
+150-250 To Attack Rating Against Undead
+2 To Light Radius
- Buffs:
- Add +1-2 To Offensive Auras (Paladin Only)
- Change D. To Demons to +100-150%
- Change D. To Undead to +100-150%
1 Like
I know we talked about Steel Carapace alot, but think we can do more to make this armor feel exciting. To strengthen flavor, I propose we make CtC Iron Maiden proc at 50% and boost level to 13, add ATD of 600 while buffing Damage Reduced By and then remove regen mana. Keep 2 OS. What do you guys think?..
Steel Carapace
Shadow Plate
Defense: 1618-1785
Req Level: 66
Req Strength: 230
+190-220% Enhanced Defense
Regenerate Mana 10-15%
+20% Faster Hit Recovery
Cold Resist +40-60%
Damage Reduced By 9-14
Repairs 1 Durability in 20 Seconds
8% CtC Lvl 6 Iron Maiden When Struck
- Buffs:
- Add 2 Open Sockets
- Add Attacker Takes Damage Of 600
- Remove Regenerate Mana 10-15%
- Change Damage Reduced By 19-24
- Change Iron Maiden Lvl to 13 and Cast to 50%
1 Like
Not sure, offensive auras are widely used, defensive are not. If ye offer both defensive auras will still not be used. So not sure if that would be a good change. The DtD will help beeing used more often, but then your still would go Fana, Conviction etc.? How about going +1 to all skills and 2-3 to defensive?
I think it needs some additional buff be a solid choice. You changed CtC Iron Maiden from a 100 to 50 what is good. 100% was to much, will constantly stay active I would even say that 33% would be more than enough. Attacker takes dmg of 600 is a lot too… But I would assume, that this would not be a power creep. It lacks a lot of important stats (skills, 20 FHR is not crazy either) so I guess that would be something to ptr test. But could think that this would make it overall good and intressting
Lastly what do you think about DarkHelmets 3 OS RW for Cold and Lightskills? Does it add to the game or is it just not need du to existing alternatives?
My reply to his proposal…
And any thoughts on this one? Or just a wast of time?
Magic Boots and Winged Knifes?
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