What’s your reasoning behind? We discussed that several months ago and came to the conclusion the for the given Lvl req and the then easily available alternatives it falls off by a margin. How often did you choose this armor over something else? I only made it once and only to really test it before making a proposal for the change….
Same accounts for all the other +2 skill class armors except treachery.
I tend d to agree. Would a little higher FCR help?
Again. Please some more context. The attempt was to make it, for an expensive RW, a bit mor appealing to Enigma to shift the usual meta build and to offer a bit more variety. So since CoH is far far less used, I think this little buff would do good on here.
Looking at Myth again, our proposed changes don’t work. Natural Resistance is level 30, while runeword is level 25. Honestly, instead of removing CtC abilities, we should improve them instead to keep the flavor of the item. At level 25, most of your points are going into combat skills and weapon masteries, so lets buff our own native shouts. In addition, instead of adding CB, I think MPK and flat damage would be more appropiate…
Myth
Hel Amn Nef
Armor
3% To Cast Level 1 Howl When Struck
10% To Cast Level 1 Taunt On Striking
+2 To Barbarian Skill Levels
+30 Defense Vs. Missile
Replenish Life +10
Attacker Takes Damage of 14
Requirements -15%
Proposed Buffs:
Add +3-5 Mana After Each Kill
Add +15-30 Damage
Change Taunt Level to 15
Change 3% CtC Level 1 Howl When Struck to 15% CtC Level 10 Shout When Struck
Let’s go to the context and here I focus only on runewords 1.11
I separate them into 3 groups.
First composed by Treachery and Peace:
Treachery needs no comment, and Peace offers a lot for the cost of Shael + Thul + Amn
Both, in my understanding, are Excellent for the offered power/cost ratio in runes and don’t even need to be touched.
Second is Enlightenment: I consider it an ok runeword for a sorceress. +2 sorc skill+ fire resist +30% + 1 Warmth per Pul rune. it’s a fair exchange. If the Sorc needs damage and not more FCR it is a perfectly playable RW. Any upgrade like +20% FCR simply takes the vipermagi and throws it in the trash, as resistances can be offset by charms.
Third: all other runeword 1.11
They need to be reworked and modified, I even made a proposal for Bone.
One thing i think you may be overlooking. Most runes that make valuable runewords good, are VERY rare. You’re changing some of these uniques to be high runeword equivalent.
Some of these uniques are not NEARLY as rare as runes. Even Tyrael’s is AT BEST is equivalent to 1.5 high rune in rarity. And you want to give 1 to teleport?
I’ll make you a deal, give it a range of -4 to +1 to teleport. This way only 1 in 5 have a chance of teleport.
Unless you make a deal where rarity of uniques when approaching runeword level have reduced drop chance then it would make sense.
This is dismissing of course the availability of some wierdly overpowered low runeword items. Which is just as frustrating because they could’ve instead just made rare uniques better… which i’m all for.
Besides Tyrael’s Might (as we’ve had many opposing viewpoints), what other unique buffs are we outclassing high-end runewords? If you can provide specific examples, we can refine our ideas for improvement.
Overall, I think we’ve done a good job at strengthening the flavor of uniques as well as improving viability without creating significant disruptions to the meta. Obviously, to know for sure, we would have to test in the PTR.
I as well can’t agree at all. We only proposed a handful items to be slightly stronger then the OP RW. And considering the individual rarety.
But happy to discuss selected items if you think that those might be not in balance. But please provide your detailed views and reasoning to give as starting point.
Well. What should I say? I don’t see those armors frequently in the wild and I’m not tempted as well. So I think that’s something might need some change.
Taunt and Howl are very „special“
skills imho. Not sure if the should be as a stable on an armor on striking. Exchanging Howl with Shout definitely helps.
Increased taunt will be good as well.
So combined with MaK that might be enough to be used. But not sure. Need to be ptr approved! But better then now!
I can´t share your opinion on this and guess an Um´ed Viper will be still BIS for most builds and super stronger for the rest.
But we´re here to discuss changes together, so lets have a deep dive on FCR armors? And a look on all FCR armors (existing and proposed ones). I hope I did not forget one, if so lmk please!
In Order of lvl req. I will leave out Forti, since it has a clear melee focus and the 25% FCR is just a commodity here.
So we start with Stealth. At lvl 17 this is super OP with currently also 25% FCR for very cheap and frequen found runes. It leaves almost no room for other options, thats why we suggested a modest nerf to it.
With 15% FCR it will still be super strong that early. But you would not use it till the end game. So no further changes needed in my opinion (besides already proposed ones).
Next on the list is our very recently discussed Spirit Shroud. At lvl 28 it provides skills, fcr (new) and mighty CNBF as well as soome other goodies. With added FRC this will be far more usefull. It is still a frequent find and I think we should only ad 10 FCR here. Imho up to 20% is to much for such a frequent and early find. 10% will hit the first BP for all chars and the second for a druid. Along with the option to add all kinds of goodies with 1 OS and upped to a dusk shroud it can have > 1.100 def.
Next on the list would be the mighty Viper. Skills, massive FRC, massive res and magic dmg reduced it will be still the strongest caster option in most cases. Socketed with an Um you get up to 50 all res (Lvl req jumpes to 47 in that case) or jewel with no increase of lvl req. Upped def reaches +1.000. So mighty all around. For lvl 29 to might in my opinion (should be a lvl 50+ armor I would say).
Skin of the Vipermagi
Unique Serpentskin Armor
Defense: 279 (Base Defense: 111-126)
Required Level: 29
Required Strength: 43
Durability: 24 +120% Enhanced Defense
+1 To All Skills
30% Faster Cast Rate
Magic Damage Reduced By 9-13 (varies)
All Resistances +20-35 (varies)
Next would be our modified Enlightenment. Higher lvl req. Strong +2 skills for sorc only.
Without FCR, no open socket and weak CtC Blaze and strange CtC FB it is barely used at all. Even if a Pul is not that expensive.
If changed as proposed there might be an insentive to use it. 2 skills, but less FCR (thats the tradeoff here!) I could see ES sorcs using it with the damage reduces but the fire res would then not matter. +3 Warmth is just a small goodie. The CtC lvl 25 Hydra would be nice when struck.
Now QHW. Highly anticipated by myself. I really like to see the buffed version. The FRC is below Viper (most likly leaves you with only BP less for most chars) but strong melee focussed affixes. The lvl req. is significantely higher then vipers. If upped with up to 1.300 def and the option to customize further with 1 OS.
So short wrap-up list:
Stealth (lvl 17): 15 FCR
Enlightenment (lvl 45): 15 FCR
The Spirit Shroud (lvl 28): 15-20 FCR (as said would cap at 10 FCR imho)
Que-Hegan’s Wisdom (lvl 51): 20 FCR
Forti: (lvl 59): 25% FRC
Viper (lvl 29) 30% FRC
I still cant see Viper beeing destroyed. But I think the list with the new stats opens up a lot of interesting options but none of them beeing OP or shifting any meta. But new niche builds could be viable with this (especially in mid game).
So happy to discuss your thoughts on all of the above!
Sidenote to Charles. 3-6% LL didn´t make it to the OP.
We haven´t coverd this one yet. To suit a poison dagger necro better, we might add something here. The +1 necro skills is weak in a world where lvl 25 spirit exists. So either we change that from +1 to +1-2 (not so many rolls on here so far and new and old versions would be coherent). Or we change other stuff. ITD is nice but not working on bosses so maybe -25% target defence would be usefull. Also Adds 15-27 Damage could be increase to make LL somehow relevant for this weapon? Maybe +10 strength as well (same as dex)?
Spineripper
Unique Poignard
One-Hand Damage: (33-35) To (81-88)
Required Level: 32
Required Strength: 25
Durability: 16
Base Weapon Speed: [-20]
+200-240% Enhanced Damage
Adds 15-27 Damage
15% Increased Attack Speed
+1 To Necromancer Skill Levels
Prevent Monster Heal
Ignore Target’s Defense
8% Life Stolen Per Hit
+10 To Dexterity
Or just leave it as it is as a okaisch early lvl weapon?
The Jade Tan Do
Unique Kris
One-Hand Damage: 2 To 11
Required Level: 19
Required Dexterity: 45
Durability: 24
Base Weapon Speed: [-20]
+100-150 to Attack Rating
+180 Poison Damage Over 4 Seconds
Poison Resistance +95%
+20% To Maximum Poison Resistance
Cannot Be Frozen
For the Jade I would only lower req. lvl to 16 in order beeing able to use it for normal Andy?
Myth
Hel Amn Nef
Armor
3% To Cast Level 1 Howl When Struck
10% To Cast Level 1 Taunt On Striking
+2 To Barbarian Skill Levels
+30 Defense Vs. Missile
Replenish Life +10
Attacker Takes Damage of 14
Requirements -15%
Proposed Buffs:
Add +3-5 Mana After Each Kill
Add +15-30 Damage
Change Taunt Level to 15
Change 3% CtC Level 1 Howl When Struck to 15% CtC Level 10 Shout When Struck
Talking about expanding a few more RW bases, what do you guys think of below?..
Bone
Can now be made in Daggers
Rift
Can now be made in Swords
Harmony
Can now be made in Polearms & Spears
I’ll review the other discussion points later when I have more time. Good day everyone.
That would be only in a Fanged Knife or its lesser variants (if OS to daggers are not going to be changed). But not sure if that would help that much. We have dagger alternativs similar to this? So I would focus on making the armor viable instead of adding new midiocre weapons to the list?
Are you aiming at anything specific here? I assume nobody has ever build it in a polearm. But I would be ok, to be limited to scepters here tbh
To make it available to A2 mercs? Could see that. But again. Harmony has some strong and clear usecases here. Not sure if expanding it to more weapons is of a higher priority to me now. First thought, that your merc running around would prevent vigor to affect your char. But at lvl 10 the range ist solid and would apply almost everytime to you.
Take your time and have a good sunday as well pal!
Necromant, based on your feedback, I updated the following below:
The Spirit Shroud
Ghost Armor
Defense: 295
Required Level: 28
Required Strength: 38
Durability: 20
+150% Enhanced Defense
Cannot Be Frozen
+1 To All Skills
Replenish Life +10
Magic Damage Reduced By 7-11
Proposed Buffs:
Add 15% CtC Lvl 1-3 Static Field When Struck
Add +10% Faster Cast Rate
Delirium
Lem Ist Io
Helms
1% To Cast Level 50 Delirium When Struck
6% To Cast Level 14 Mind Blast When Struck
14% To Cast Level 13 Terror When Struck
11% To Cast Level 18 Confuse On Striking
+2 To All Skills
+261 Defense
+10 To Vitality
50% Extra Gold From Monsters
25% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
Level 17 Attract (60 Charges)
Proposed Buffs:
Add +10-15% Increased Attack Speed
Add 3-6% Life Stolen Per Hit
Remove Level 17 Attract (60 Charges)
Change Mind Blast Cast to 9%
Change Gold Find to 100%
The Jade Tan Do
Kris
One-Hand Damage: 2 To 11
Required Level: 19
Required Dexterity: 45
+100-150 to Attack Rating
+180 Poison Damage Over 4 Seconds
Poison Resist +95%
+20% To Maximum Poison Resist
Cannot Be Frozen
Proposed Buffs:
Add +3 To Poison Dagger (Necromancer Only)
Change Required Lvl to 14
For Rune Master, I think adding cold resist along with buffing max cold resist keeps flavor intact as it fits nicely with CBF. As it has 3-5 OS, it offers alot of customization, including adding IAS if desired.
For Spineripper, I think +skills should be expanded to all classes. Agree with you on adding -25% target defence. Lastly, to fit namesake, I think adding DS strengthens the flavor of the item…
Spineripper
Poignard
One-Hand Damage: 33-88
Required Level: 32
Required Strength: 25
+200-240% Enhanced Damage
Adds 15-27 Damage
15% Increased Attack Speed
+1 To Necromancer Skills
Prevent Monster Heal
Ignore Target’s Defense
8% Life Stolen Per Hit
+10 To Dexterity
Proposed Buffs:
Add +15% Chance of Deadly Strike
Add -25% Target Defence
Change +1 To Necromancer Skills to +1 To All Skills
I´m with you on almost all of this. A few thougths though.
Would you leave level req. 32 on this? Or is something in the late 20th better suited? But the changes with DS, - TD and +1 all skills is not bad at all.
Lvl 14 is quite low, but ok for me. The poison dagger is not to strong even for this frequent find.
But with the RM I don´t see it to be viable tbh.
With lvl 72 its an end game weapon (I leave a faceted caster version aside, since this is very niche). It has to compete with several end game and high end options. We´re talking Deaths, Griefs and eBotD here.
So I went over to maxroll and created a naked lvl 99 barb (just for comparison). With +20 axe and sword mastery. Normal attack and lvl 20 concentrate.
Comparing a PERFECT eth RM with LOWEST rolls of those three.
I added Zod, Ber, Lo and 2 x Ohm. (RM 1)
And second version with. Zod and 4xOhm (RM 2)
Third with Zod and 4xShael (RM 3)
Grief: 340 dmg PB
eDeath: eth zerker axe with 300 ED
eBotD: eth zerker axe with 350 ED
All three expensive but manageable and with lower lvl req (59-69). All with a ton of other goodies like LL, - target defence, DS, CB etc etc.
Besides having a ton less utility goodies like LL, attribute points etc. It is still the weakest by a ton in all three version and the slowest with all negative side effects except the 4xShael.
Super expensive, super rare (perfect and must be eth!!!). The the max resist alone, even if very thematic, doesn´t cut it at all. So we would change it but it will be still expensive charsi food tbh. Even with +30-40 IAS it would have a hard stand. And were comparing a perfect one with the lowest RW-rolls here! A good rolled non-eth as well as a low rolled eth should be somehow viable and end-game able?
Or did I miss something on those calculations here?
And what do you think about my comments on your runewords? Not happy or do I have a point?
Agreed, I think lowering req. level by 5 would be a good change as shown below…
Spineripper
Poignard
One-Hand Damage: 33-88
Required Level: 32
Required Strength: 25
+200-240% Enhanced Damage
Adds 15-27 Damage
15% Increased Attack Speed
+1 To Necromancer Skills
Prevent Monster Heal
Ignore Target’s Defense
8% Life Stolen Per Hit
+10 To Dexterity
Proposed Buffs:
Add +15% Chance of Deadly Strike
Add -25% Target Defence
Change Required Lvl to 27
Change +1 To Necromancer Skills to +1 To All Skills
The main problem with Rune Master is the sheer cost investment of making a really good one. For example, if your lucky enough to find a 5OS Eth, you’ll need one Zod rune, two 15/40 jewels, and two Lo runes for deadly strike. That’s expensive!
I was thinking a 3 OS RM is hot garbage and is Charsi food. First thing we can do to improve is to change OS roll to 4-5, where we still have a good one and a bad one. Next, to improve viability even more, we should add self repair mod in the event you find eth version and saves the player a Zod. I also think adding ITD would give the ettin axe a much needed combat modifier and saves the player a Jah. Lastly, adding cold resist strengthens theme and meshs well with max cold resist. So here is what I propose…
Rune Master
Ettin Axe
One-Hand Damage: (105-122) To (211-244)
Required Level: 72
Required Strength: 145
Required Dexterity: 45
+220-270% Enhanced Damage
+5% To Max Cold Resist
Cannot Be Frozen
Socketed (3-5)
Proposed Buffs:
Add Cold Resist +50%
Add Ignore Target’s Defense
Add Repair 1 Durability in 10 Seconds
Change Open Sockets to 4-5
Agreed with your comments and think expanding those RWs is not needed.
That helps. The non eth will be still garbage, but opening on OS will help for the eth version.
Your right. But I think we don´t need to change that tbh. Part of the excitement. You need the eth 5 OS Version to do something with it.
With you on this one. But ITD doesn´t work on bosses right? So maybe -25% target defense is the better option here?
That is thematic. As already discussed. So good to go.
Now to the core of the problem. If added -25% defence and the cold res mods. A PERFECT eth RM with 5 x obscenely expensive 15/40 still doesnt cut it.
Back to my barb showcase.
This version deals only 2492 dps (2.27 hits per second) with a normal attack and 4603 dps with concentrate. So now better then BotD and Death Zerker axes. But for the cost to deck out 20 fully equiped chars.
If we take a mid roll (245 ED) and more obtainably 15/30s. This will result in 2164/3997 dps. Weaker then a “affordable” lowest rolled eBotD (but without the massiv ML, LL and 30 attribute points.
With 3 x 15/30 and 2 x Lo this will be 2076/3834. But still much more expensive, more rare and without a lot of goodies.
How about this?
Proposed Buffs:
Add Cold Resist +50%
Add -25% Target Defense
Add Repair 1 Durability in 10 Seconds
Change Enhanced Damage from +220-270 to 300-350%
Lower lvl requirement from 72 to 65
That might work on the dps lvl. CBF and cold res in echange for attributes, CB and leech etc.
Dmg will be around the same as the 5*15/40 with max 270 base ED (normal attack around 2500 and conc with almost 4600). That could work in at least some edge cases. Will be a viable trophy at least.
We’re definitely almost there for Rune Master. The only minor tweaks is to tone down ED slightly to be lower than Executioner’s Justice, which is +280-330%. Lastly, on items, I’ve been systematically dropping level req. in increments of 5, with Hexfire being only exception. We could drop level by 5 for this ettin axe as dropping by 10 was only done for really iconic items, such as TM, Arkaine’s Valor, Azurewrath, etc. I would like to propose this slightly different version…
Rune Master
Ettin Axe
One-Hand Damage: (105-122) To (211-244)
Required Level: 72
Required Strength: 145
Required Dexterity: 45
+220-270% Enhanced Damage
+5% To Max Cold Resist
Cannot Be Frozen
Socketed (3-5)
