Community Feedback for Improving Itemization

General Discussion
1044

Im playing a Poison Necro and wanted to try to combine it with poison dagger. The skill itself is mediocre at best but nevertheless the weapon of choice is super weak itselft. We discussed Blackbog’s with O-skill but voted against it. Maybe we can have a nother take on it? I haven´t found a D-Web yet so switched back to a White Wand with +3 poison nova for now. Any ideas to make it work for a poison dagger necro?

Blackbog’s Sharp
Unique Cinquedeas

One-Hand Damage: 30 To 76
Required Level 38
Required Strength: 25
Required Dexterity: 88
Durability: 24
Base Weapon Speed: [-20]
+488 Poison Damage Over 10 Seconds
Adds 15-45 Damage
30% Increased Attack Speed
Slows Target By 50%
+50 Defense
+4 To Poison Nova (Necromancer Only)
+4 To Poison Explosion (Necromancer Only)
+5 To Poison Dagger (Necromancer Only)

I firstly put a Hel rune to lower dex req. Later I tried a Shael both not great at all. The long duration on poison dagger is imho a problem and can only solved at the skill itself (at lvl 33 it hast 15k p-dmg but delivered over 14,8 seconds). But maybe we can think a variant to make it work better.

Some options:

A: Add IAS to be able to put a facet in the slot? Maybe another 20 like a Shael would provide.
B: Add -10 enemy p-res (then you could add a Shael) or 2 OS
C: Increasing skills further. Like +1-2 Poison and Bones skills (not more to not rival White)
D: Or +1 Necro skills
E: Increase p-dagger from +5 to 5-8 or so
F: Change +488 Poison Damage Over 10 Seconds to somthing like +1500 over 5 seconds

Any thoughts on this?

1 Like
1045

we need small changes to game mechanics if any

big changes to items like the grandfather <----THIS!!!

make it ethereal with 40 ias 2os dont even need to make the ed 300 leave it at 250

1 Like
1046

Sorry for the off topic, because I’m going to talk about a skill correction. As for the poison dagger, it is a skill that has no solution. Trying to solve it requires massive changes or the creation of a new mosaic.

It should become infuse poison more or less along the same lines as the enchant, with a maximum poison application time of 2 sec, making the weapon the necromancer will use more flexible, perhaps having a bonus on the poison application time for use of poison. equipped daggers.

1047

Or some IAS per Lvl. But skill corrections are e new topic. So any ideas about the dagger?

I’m not sure how the different sources of poison interact here?

1 Like
1048

We can discuss proposals for Pus Spitter and Blackbog’s Sharp but nothing we do will be effective if both poison explosion and poison dagger continue to receive 0.4 seconds per level of damage delay from the poison.

2 Likes
1049

Absolutely agree, but thats fo another topic :slight_smile: So lets focussed here on items and then we start a thread about skills again :slight_smile:

2 Likes
1050

I think we can keep this pretty simple without skill corrections. For Blackbog’s Sharp, I would add 1-2 OS for a rainbow facet and maybe a Shael for additional IAS and also buff the bonus to Poison Dagger as shown below…

Blackbog’s Sharp
Cinquedeas
One-Hand Damage: 30 To 76
Required Level: 38
Required Strength: 25
Required Dexterity: 88
+488 Poison Damage Over 10 Seconds
Adds 15-45 Damage
30% Increased Attack Speed
Slows Target By 50%
+50 Defense
+4 To Poison Nova (Necromancer Only)
+4 To Poison Explosion (Necromancer Only)
+5 To Poison Dagger (Necromancer Only)

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Add 1-2 Open Sockets
    • Change Poison Dagger from +5 to +8
2 Likes
1051

Charles is your proposal good? There’s no way to know.

  • If the skill stays the same, it will still be insufficient.
  • If the skill was corrected with a maximum time of 4 seconds to apply the poison, it might be fine.
  • If the skill was corrected with a maximum time of 2 seconds to apply the poison, the item might be overpowered.

The best thing we can do is move on to the next item, if the staff signals any changes, we’ll rescue the proposal.

1 Like
1052

Going back to Pus Spitter, this would be more useful if it had +2 All Skills instead of +2 Necro Skills (similar to proposed change we made to Eaglehorn) as this is a decent swap option for elemental amazon for LR proc. I propose to also add piercing attack, and slightly buff LR…

Pus Spitter
Siege Crossbow
Two-Hand Damage: (50-64) To (105-134)
Required Level: 36
Required Strength: 32
Required Dexterity: 28
+150-220% Enhanced Damage
+150 Poison Damage Over 8 Seconds
Requirements -60%
9% To Cast Level 6 Poison Nova When Struck
4% To Cast Level 1 Lower Resist On Striking
+5-495 To Attack Rating
10% Increased Attack Speed
+2 To Necromancer Skills

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Add +33% Piercing Attack
    • Change Lower Resist Level from 1 to 6 and Cast from 4% to 9%
    • Change +2 To Necromancer Skills to +2 To All Skills
2 Likes
1053

this is a great and thought out list however u forget the 1 major thing…BOTTING…why is it every list i see does not include fix the botting…how about instead of flagging an account for upcoming banwave…you dont wait u just ban them right there when they get that flag…there is no point in having a development team rework all these changes when day 3 of new ladder it would be pointless because all the bots are already farming gear for their pay websites that are literally infesting the game list as this very moment…FIX BOTTING THEN WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE REST

1 Like
1054

This topic is not able to discuss everything that has been proposed because we are talking about problems that date from version 1.10 or even older.

Please feel free to create a new forum thread with a theme for this.

And in clear Portuguese:

Não torre a po*** da nossa paciência

2 Likes
1055

whats the point in having blizzard spend $ in workhours reworking all of this if its just gonna drive the playerbase away when the bots ruin the trading? day 3 of the ladder…theres bigger problems at hand than any clearly thought out list…like i said i like alot of the changes proposed i just feel like its waste of time/resources of blizzard when the root of the problem isnt being addressed

1056

As Camperdabase stated, this thread is a round table discussion for improving itemization, with special focus on uniques. I agree that Blizzard should address botting, but that is not within the scope of this thread. Please feel free to create your own thread around this issue, and I’ll support.

To continue the discussion, I would like to propose buffs to Necromaner shrunken heads. First off, I think Homunculus is solid at level 42, no changes are needed. However, Darkforce Spawn and Boneflame could use a buff to improve viability.

For Darkforce Spawn, finding one is exceedingly rare with good rolls to +skills, so I think we should propose a modifier on FCR to help compete with Spirit along with -enemy magic resist to help Bone Necro on Hell (maybe use case for magic sunder charm?)…

Darkforce Spawn
Bloodlord Skull
Defense: 357-417
Required Level: 65
Required Strength: 106
+140-180% Enhanced Defense
+1-3 To Summoning Skills (Necromancer Only)
+1-3 To Poison and Bone Spells (Necromancer Only)
+1-3 To Curses (Necromancer Only)
+30% Faster Cast Rate
Increase Maximum Mana 10%

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Add -15-20% To Enemy Magic Resist
    • Change Faster Cast Rate from 30% to 30-40%

For Boneflame, I think we should make +skills a static +3, add max fire resist as it feels thematic, and finally add bonus to energy as a summoner you alternate between amp & c/e which is quite mana intensive…

Boneflame
Succubus Skull
Defense: 323-367
Required Level: 72
Required Strength: 95
+120-150% Enhanced Defense
+20% Faster Run/Walk
+2-3 To Necromancer Skills
All Resistances +20-30
15% Chance To Cast Level 3 Terror When Struck

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Add +30-40 To Energy
    • Add +5% Max Fire Resist
    • Change Necromancer Skills from +2-3 to +3
5 Likes
1057

Everyone who reads this thread understands this. You have You have my support, as do many other people on the forum who have already created a topic complaining about the same problem.

If we put the paladin shields in comparison, the rest except Zakarum are crap, kind of leveling with the homunculus being the only good one. Everything would be more or less balanced if nothing is done.

My opinion on what should happen, in addition to your proposed changes I would add.

For the Bone Flame:
-20-30% enemy fire resistance

Here the summoner thinks if it’s not worth changing the bone flame to increase the corpse explosion’s damage.

For Darkforce Spawn
+40 all resist
delete variations 1-3 and directly put +3 necromancer skills

Without something like that, the homuncus will still share the spirit with the BIS forever.

The problem, as I already mentioned in the discussion, is that basic paladin shields can receive 4 sockets if they have ilevel for that, while necromancer shields are limited to 2 of the 10 possible runewords, it is true that there can be +3 +3 and +2 in different skills however:

It is not necessary to know probabilities to intuit that the chance of finding a shield with good all resist of paladin is much higher since it only raffles between all res or dmg% and air, The necromancer shield rolls against 30 properties + the chance of it coming out empty.

There is no need to extend the discussion about the very early arrival of the spirit shield for the paladin and the difference in recipes available for necromancer shields.

I’ve already made the socket increase proposals for necromancer shields.

2 Likes
1058

I agree Boneflame is lacking a fire mod and Darkforce Spawn lacking resist is objectively worse. Plus, both have high req. and neither of them have any combination of mods that makes it more desirable than Homunculus.

Updated OP with adding Darkforce Spawn and Boneflame as shown below:

Darkforce Spawn
Bloodlord Skull
Defense: 357-417
Required Level: 65
Required Strength: 106
+140-180% Enhanced Defense
+1-3 To Summoning Skills (Necromancer Only)
+1-3 To Poison and Bone Skills (Necromancer Only)
+1-3 To Curses (Necromancer Only)
+30% Faster Cast Rate
Increase Maximum Mana 10%

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Add +25 All Resist
    • Add -15-25% To Enemy Magic Resist
    • Change Summoning Skills, Poison and Bone Skills, Curses from +1-3 to +2-3

Boneflame
Succubus Skull
Defense: 323-367
Required Level: 72
Required Strength: 95
+120-150% Enhanced Defense
+20% Faster Run/Walk
+2-3 To Necromancer Skills
All Resistances +20-30
15% To Cast Level 3 Terror When Struck

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Add +30 To Energy
    • Add -20-30% To Enemy Fire Resist
    • Change Necromancer Skills from +2-3 to +3
1 Like
1059

The +8 to poison dagger helps. And 2 OS might be enough to be usable. 1 OS can be done with Lazurk as well, so you need to hunt for the 2 OS version If you would like to use it in higher lvls then your lvl 38 starting point. Since it is not super rare, that would be good imho!

I guess they won´t apply only 2 sec to the skills. It would be OP even without Blackbogs ´t even considered. So I guess 2 OS and 3 more skill lvl won´t harm. If the work on the skill they have to make a lot of assumptions if and how to rework correctly (There might be 3-4 possible daggers to be considered).

Seems to be a clear problem. But not for a SSF player. So we need to talk about several things simultaniously. Uniques are for example my top priority to secure long term fun with the game. Botting is not a majar problem for me. Even QOL changes (lootfilters, more chars-slot, currency tab) would be far more important then botting (but that is just my list :slight_smile:

If an A1 merc could use that some time in the future, this would be a solid melee support :slight_smile:
I agree, that +2 skills and higher LR would help it without doing any harm. Piere needs to be testet, but I guess that wouldn´t harm either. So I´m good with your proposal! :+1:

Shall we focus this only on Bone-Necros with the - magic res? It´s a super rare find. If youre lucky to find a +3 Summon and +3 Curses version with +40 FCR, that should be usefull somehow and not trash directly? I tend do add 2 OS here as well instead of -magic res. This way you could use p facets or boost your res or add rare jewels instead. Much more versatile?

Boneflame is much more common then Darkforce and much more usable imho already.
I would leave the skills roll untouched (to keep up excitement), but agree with the addition to Energy and max fire resist. Or maybe we change energy to mana? Does other increase max. mana items apply here (SOJ, Frostburns etc.)? So maybe more mana would be better then energy (> 60-80 Mana)?

Edit: Havent seen the last post. But the story keeps the same :slight_smile:

And Charels, don´t forget about the open discussion on claws? :slight_smile:

A good day to everybody! :clinking_glasses:

1 Like
1060

Fact is the problem with some skills is real and consensus, so I reaffirm that we shouldn’t even look at items that depend on skills that are garbage or are just synergy of another skill. I think we’re wasting time on these items for now.

I recommend this mosaic topic, you don’t have to agree with everything in it, but it’s very instructive on how testing with players above 8 can make the item op.

1061

Necromant, good day! I updated OP based on your feedback and put katars under category- “SWORDS, DAGGERS, AXES & KATARS.” :slight_smile:

For Shadow Killer, I like your idea of lowering lvl req. I also think we should add bonus to shadow disciplines and shadow master to fit namesake. For Bartuc’s, adding open wounds seems fitting for a cut-throat. For Jade Talon, both venom and dragon talon seems to work. For Firelizard’s Talons, changing martial arts to fire skills would make dual fire claw and large bonus to fists of fire makes skill useful for endgame.

Blackbog’s Sharp
Cinquedeas
One-Hand Damage: 30 To 76
Required Level: 38
Required Strength: 25
Required Dexterity: 88
+488 Poison Damage Over 10 Seconds
Adds 15-45 Damage
30% Increased Attack Speed
Slows Target By 50%
+50 Defense
+4 To Poison Nova (Necromancer Only)
+4 To Poison Explosion (Necromancer Only)
+5 To Poison Dagger (Necromancer Only)

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Add 1-2 Open Sockets
    • Change Poison Dagger from +5 to +8

Pus Spitter
Siege Crossbow
Two-Hand Damage: (50-64) To (105-134)
Required Level: 36
Required Strength: 32
Required Dexterity: 28
+150-220% Enhanced Damage
+150 Poison Damage Over 8 Seconds
Requirements -60%
9% To Cast Level 6 Poison Nova When Struck
4% To Cast Level 1 Lower Resist On Striking
+5-495 To Attack Rating
10% Increased Attack Speed
+2 To Necromancer Skills

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Add -5-10% To Enemy Physical Resist
    • Change Lower Resist Level from 1 to 6 and Cast from 4% to 9%
    • Change +2 To Necromancer Skills to +2 To All Skills

Darkforce Spawn
Bloodlord Skull
Defense: 357-417
Required Level: 65
Required Strength: 106
+140-180% Enhanced Defense
+1-3 To Summoning Skills (Necromancer Only)
+1-3 To Poison and Bone Skills (Necromancer Only)
+1-3 To Curses (Necromancer Only)
+30% Faster Cast Rate
Increase Maximum Mana 10%

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Add 2 Open Sockets
    • Change Faster Cast Rate from 30% to 30-40%

Boneflame
Succubus Skull
Defense: 323-367
Required Level: 72
Required Strength: 95
+120-150% Enhanced Defense
+20% Faster Run/Walk
+2-3 To Necromancer Skills
All Resistances +20-30
15% To Cast Level 3 Terror When Struck

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Add +50-75 To Mana
    • Add -15-25% To Enemy Fire Resist

Shadow Killer
Battle Cestus
Damage: (145-172) To (170-201)
Required Level: 78
Required Strength: 100
Required Dexterity: 100
+170-220% Enhanced Damage
-25% Target Defense
Freezes Target +2
+10-15 To Mana After Each Kill
33% To Cast Level 8 Frost Nova On Striking
Indestructible
Ethereal

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Add +2 To Shadow Disciplines (Assassin Only)
    • Add +1-3 To Shadow Master (Assassin Only)
    • Add +30% Increased Attack Speed
    • Change Required Level from 78 to 73

Firelizard’s Talons
Feral Claws
Damage: (66-81) To (159-196)
Required Level: 67
Required Strength: 113
Required Dexterity: 113
+200-270% Enhanced Damage
Adds 236-480 Fire Damage
+15% Increased Attack Speed
+1-3 To Martial Arts (Assassin Only)
+1-2 To Wake of Inferno (Assassin Only)
+1-2 To Wake of Fire (Assassin Only)
Fire Resist +40-70%

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Add +2-4 To Fists of Fire (Assassin Only)
    • Change +1-3 To Martial Arts to +3 To Fire Skills

Jade Talon
Wrist Sword
Damage: (98-115) To (130-153)
Required Level: 66
Required Strength: 105
Required Dexterity: 105
+190-240% Enhanced Damage
+1-2 To Martial Arts (Assassin Only)
+1-2 To Shadow Disciplines (Assassin Only)
+30% Faster Hit Recovery
10-15% Mana Stolen Per Hit
All Resistances +40-50

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Add +2 To Venom (Assassin Only)
    • Add +2 To Dragon Talon (Assassin Only)
    • Add +30% Faster Block Rate

Bartuc’s Cut-Throat
Greater Talons
Damage: (77-88) To (137-155)
Required Level: 42
Required Strength: 79
Required Dexterity: 79
+150-200% Enhanced Damage
Adds 25-50 Damage
30% Faster Hit Recovery
20% Bonus To Attack Rating
5-9% Life Stolen Per Hit
+20 To Strength
+20 To Dexterity
+2 To Assassin Skill Levels
+1 To Martial Arts Skills (Assassin Only)

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Add +33% Chance of Open Wounds
3 Likes
1062

Enigma is waaaaaaaay too strong.
The rarest item in the game is tyraels might. Thus, it must be a real banger!

Teleport is s must since that is THE skill in D2.

1063

I don’t think this has to be true. And I really like giving Tyraels might the identity fleshed out in this post. Making enigma but better just because of rarity is really lazy design… sorry. Already -100% requirements is huge. Adding salvation is such a great bonus for end game users. I can still get slapped by Infector if I’m not paying attention and he has conviction and I’ve been Lower Res by a death mage, so having salvation counters alot of end game difficulty.

Pair this with making teleport more accessible in end game content and you have basically turned the trading market on its head as people clamor for whatever the best build options are.

Rarity should not equate to being OP. It should still be useful, yes. But not broken. Ubiquity in the game threatens the original goal of Diablo.

1 Like