Community Feedback for Improving Itemization

[Nickie-11685]

In my opinion, it’s not a big deal to create more O-skill for early game items. They’ll still be considered worthless on battle net.

For singleplayer, how often do you find Bloodletters? If a Paladin manages to find one, it just makes their game a little more interesting for a short while, and maybe it would be worthless for them to even consider using it over their primary skill.

Since it’s level 30, maybe it would be a great LLD weapon for Paladin and make the game a little more interesting.

[CharlesJT-1538]

@Necromant-2961

I think all changes are ok. But I´m not sure if I like in general the idea of having access to too many O-Skills on every class.

@Nickie-11685

In my opinion, it’s not a big deal to create more O-skill for early game items. They’ll still be considered worthless on battle net.

This was my thoughts as well as all the items listed are low-level and not a big deal. It would be a different story if it was end-game gear.

[Necromant-2961]

Aight. I’m with you!

[ReactionTime-1543]

It took me a very long time to fine tooth comb all these changes, but I’m finally done. To be clear, my stance on agreeing with ANY of these changes, actually ALL take a back seat to fixing the glaring problem of bowzons not actually being buffed when the patch stated they were. That bug needs to be hashed out before ANY of this gets done.

I applaud your attention to detail and how in depth you go. Unfortuantely, a lot of your proposed changes do 1 of 2 things.

1. Bolster most heavily the classes that are already strong or overpowered
2. Blanket everyone with buffs, further trivializing the game and making people burn out even faster.

People seem to forget that once you get all the cool stuff, the drive to play dies with it. If you have more than enough damage and utility provided by mediocre stuff, there’s no reason to continue finding even better things.

All of this would need to be accompanied with a SIGNIFICANTLY harder version of the game than “Hell” currently provides us.

It also falls extremely short on the understanding of missile classes woes.

• • Repairs Durability 1 Every 33 seconds
    -* Faster Cast Rate 1-10%
    These suggestion would vastly break a lot of items and builds beyond their already unfathomably broken state.

• Throwing Potions

  • Damage scales with Character Level
    This would be cool if it mattered. Since there’s no build surrounded by it, throwing potions will either have to be balanced as the strongest, or not the strongest. This would force it unto a strategic level of play that says “If by this level you don’t have at least X weapon, then you are better off just throwing potions” for quite a few classes. While the idea is great, the logistics behind it don’t work.

• Add option to show iLvl on items and enabled via a toggle in Options Menu (helps when crafting and socketing)
  Yes please

• Add Refresh Button to Vendor Screen to search available wares (e.g. Gambling). This will prevent running in and out of town and checking shop for a particular item. This feature will be unavailable for public games
  Yes please.

Charged Items

• Decrease cost of recharging items
  No thank you. Charge items are designed to be a pain in the rear to maintain because you aren’t supposed to have that ability. If anything, the cost should actually be double or tripled to prevent continued maintainence of the specific item and forcing the player to be more creative, or to remove charged items all together, PARTICULARLY teleport charges.

• Replenish arrows/bolts with Repair
  Yes please. A thousand times, yes.

• Update weapon tooltips so dexterity required and strength required is flipped so strength is always listed first and dexterity second, same order on Character Screen
  A sensible suggestion I have no quarrel with

• Currently, faster cast suffixes available are Apprentice (10% FCR) and Magus (20% FCR). For Magical and Rare Staves, they should add two new suffixes: “Wizard” (30% FCR) and “Archwizard” (50% FCR)
  Casters and FCR are already disproportionately strong. The need to remove existing FCR outweighs the need to add more.

• Crossbows

  • Add innate ability to roll w/ -Target Defense (-10% for Normal Crossbows, -25% for Exceptional Crossbows, and -50% for Elite Crossbows)
  • Decrease strength and dexterity requirements across the board
    Cool thinking, but doesn’t address the actual problem. I do like the -defense, but crossbows aren’t bad because of hit. They’re bad because they’re slower and even with - 100% defense, still math to be lower damage because of block mechanics, combined with the projectile not registering bug that has plagued the game since day 1. If missiles worked properly in the first place, crossbows might benefit from this, but with the bug still in tact, it won’t matter.

• +100-300 Attack Rating

  • Current: +1-3 Attack Rating
    This suggestion bears no benefit to the wearer, because once you’re in the upper tier of the game, AR is vastly dropped off a cliff in usefulness due to DMR. They have to address the DMR issue of this first. If the DMR issue was fixed, then this would be nice depending on how they balanced the DMR.

• +10-50% Enhanced Damage

  • Current: +5-15% Enhanced Damage
    This would inevitably bust pvp entirely, which i don’t even participate in, but can see from a mile away.

Furthermore, I thought it would be a nice feature if the developers added new recipes utilizing the Zod Rune for creating unique quivers for infinite quantity of arrows and bolts as follows…

• Quiver of Arrows + Zod Rune = Quiver of Endless Arrows
• Quiver of Bolts + Zod Rune = Quiver of Endless Bolts
  I don’t detest this suggestion, but I feel like arrows and bolts need an entire new approach, since bowzons are already at TWO distinct disadvantages;
  1) they don’t have a 2nd weapon / shield slot to gain any item benefits from
  2) the missile bug that prevents all their shots from registering anyways puts them at a hyper-massive dps loss for no reason.

They need to address the registration of missiles, THEN a more sound solution would be to create quivers that actually have stats to help keep bowzons in line with other classes. But again, BEFORE this, they should fix the fact that they said they buffed bowzon strafe, but they edited the wrong file, so the buff never actually happened.

• Proposed Buffs:

  • Change Meteor Level from 6 to 12
  • Change Meteor Cast from 2% to 10%
  • Change +1 To Amazon Skills to +1 To All Skills
    A nice gesture, but wildly useless. Would make for a cool animation, but nothing more.

• Proposed Buffs:

  • Change +3-5 To Strafe (Amazon Only) to +3-5 To Strafe
    Why?

Just going down the list and back up, it’s just a wide and vast blanket of proposed buffs. No nerfs. The game is already too easy in most places, with only a few tiny niche pain spots for certain classes. Lets address the actual problems and not turn this into farmville.

[Nickie-11685]

All I get from the above post is to buff Amazon, and then any other buffs or changes can be considered.

Most of it is over-exaggerated speculation. That’s something I’ve commonly seen on this forum in the last 1.5 when it comes to making changes to this game. That it’s going to turn it into D3 (or in this case farmville) when in reality, the proposed changes don’t even come close to making a dent.

Yeah we know the game should be harder. That’s why we asked for Terror Zones to actually be challenging, but the devs ignored it.

From what I get from your post, your’e saying that Tyrael’s Might, the rarest item in the game, rarer than a zod rune, should be left alone because buffing it to behave similarly to Griffins would be making the game easier. You don’t think that that would motivate people to actually MF for one the same way a Griffins does? We already know the answer. That would bring the game to a more healthy state, and that’s what the whole point of this thread is. The other uniques are shades of grey and we’re trying to bring some contrast back to this washed out composition.

None of the proposed changes to uniques come close to being overpowered.

Speed runners like Bender can beat the Ubers with a Barb in only 8 hours with only two Black flails. People don’t play this game to just beat the bosses.

Back in 2002, we (battle net) were rushed from normal to hell, and then grinded cows to level 80 within 30 minutes. That was the only “end game” zone in the entire game. But we didn’t play to just beat the game, we played it to find all the best items, trade for Soj’s and accumulate wealth. That’s what JSP players have been doing for 20 years. And that’s what they’ll continue to do until they’re dead.

@ReactionTime-1543

Lets address the actual problems and not turn this into farmville.

So some of your claims are true on paper, but in reality it’s a different story. To say that Charles is trying to turn this game into farmville is a spit in the face.

[CharlesJT-1538]

@ReactionTime-1543

Throwing Potions

• Damage scales with Character Level
  This would be cool if it mattered. Since there’s no build surrounded by it, throwing potions will either have to be balanced as the strongest, or not the strongest. This would force it unto a strategic level of play that says “If by this level you don’t have at least X weapon, then you are better off just throwing potions” for quite a few classes. While the idea is great, the logistics behind it don’t work.

Throwing potions are not even remotely viable. I don’t see the harm making them slightly stronger as you level so they are atleast relevant in mid-to-late game. I don’t agree with the sentiment about the extreme of having them to be balanced as the strongest or not. I’ll settle for useable.

@ReactionTime-1543

Decrease cost of recharging items
No thank you. Charge items are designed to be a pain in the rear to maintain because you aren’t supposed to have that ability. If anything, the cost should actually be double or tripled to prevent continued maintainence of the specific item and forcing the player to be more creative, or to remove charged items all together, PARTICULARLY teleport charges.

Same type of argument for charged items as they are not even remotely viable, except teleport charges. I don’t see the value in high recharge costs as this simply dissuades people from using them… what fun is that?

@ReactionTime-1543

Currently, faster cast suffixes available are Apprentice (10% FCR) and Magus (20% FCR). For Magical and Rare Staves, they should add two new suffixes: “Wizard” (30% FCR) and “Archwizard” (50% FCR)
Casters and FCR are already disproportionately strong. The need to remove existing FCR outweighs the need to add more.

The goal with these changes is to bolster the power of magical and rare staves. I’m all ears if you have a better solution.

@ReactionTime-1543

Crossbows

• Add innate ability to roll w/ -Target Defense (-10% for Normal Crossbows, -25% for Exceptional Crossbows, and -50% for Elite Crossbows)
• Decrease strength and dexterity requirements across the board
  Cool thinking, but doesn’t address the actual problem. I do like the -defense, but crossbows aren’t bad because of hit. They’re bad because they’re slower and even with - 100% defense, still math to be lower damage because of block mechanics, combined with the projectile not registering bug that has plagued the game since day 1. If missiles worked properly in the first place, crossbows might benefit from this, but with the bug still in tact, it won’t matter.

I think decreasing the strength and dexterity requirements across the board and adding minus target defense for crossbows might not be the perfect solution for crossbows, but definitely moves them in the right direction.

@ReactionTime-1543

• +100-300 Attack Rating
• Current: +1-3 Attack Rating
  This suggestion bears no benefit to the wearer, because once you’re in the upper tier of the game, AR is vastly dropped off a cliff in usefulness due to DMR. They have to address the DMR issue of this first. If the DMR issue was fixed, then this would be nice depending on how they balanced the DMR.
• +10-50% Enhanced Damage
• Current: +5-15% Enhanced Damage
  This would inevitably bust pvp entirely, which i don’t even participate in, but can see from a mile away.

I think most people would support buffing superior weapons. The additional AR would go a long way to help with the TZ’s and don’t see the issue with a modest bump in ED.

@ReactionTime-1543

Just going down the list and back up, it’s just a wide and vast blanket of proposed buffs.

The vast majority of the buffs you mentioned are for revamping unique items as they are still completely outclassed by runewords. I think the rarest and most iconic items in the game (e.g. Tyrael’s Might, The Grandfather, Mang Song’s Lesson, etc.) should be strong contenders for end-game gear.

[Childe-1683]

@ReactionTime-1543

Change +3-5 To Strafe (Amazon Only) to +3-5 To Strafe
Why?

Not only do I agree these changes to make so many skills o-skills seems unnecessary, the game caps o-skills at +3 for the native class, so +5 to Strafe (Amazon Only) gives an amazon +5, but +5 to Strafe only gives an Amazon +3. This seems to have been forgotten by the folks in this thread on a few different items.

[CharlesJT-1538]

@Childe-1683

the game caps o-skills at +3 for the native class, so +5 to Strafe (Amazon Only) gives an amazon +5, but +5 to Strafe only gives an Amazon +3

That’s a good point and may need to go back and make a few corrections. That’s why I think we will be most successful if this initiative is a community effort. It would be helpful if someone completed an audit on the uniques in the OP to identify any issues.

[Necromant-2961]

Hi, thanks to your participation. The more the better. I would like to share my opinion on some of your adressed points

@ReactionTime-1543

I applaud your attention to detail and how in depth you go. Unfortuantely, a lot of your proposed changes do 1 of 2 things.

1. Bolster most heavily the classes that are already strong or overpowered
2. Blanket everyone with buffs, further trivializing the game and making people burn out even faster.

People seem to forget that once you get all the cool stuff, the drive to play dies with it. If you have more than enough damage and utility provided by mediocre stuff, there’s no reason to continue finding even better things.

I´ve been focussing on the improvement of unutilized uniques (not so much the rest of the mechanics for my part). That being said, the above stated stays true with or without most of our suggestions? Regarding it´s either enigma or not enigma? With e.g. Tyraels being buffed, there are just one very rare option. And I had the feeling, that we considered rarity in most parts (but please be specific if you have some particular concerns). So I would not agree without some demur.

@ReactionTime-1543

Charged Items

• Decrease cost of recharging items
  No thank you. Charge items are designed to be a pain in the rear to maintain because you aren’t supposed to have that ability. If anything, the cost should actually be double or tripled to prevent continued maintainence of the specific item and forcing the player to be more creative, or to remove charged items all together, PARTICULARLY teleport charges.

Here I would like to disagree completely. I almost never use charges. They are now either very expensive and most of the time to weak or to low in numbers. Nobody uses an Item with only 25 tele charges. Your cant run a full CS only with 25 charges. So those items are in most cases completely irrelevant. Thats why people use enigma even if they would love to use something else… That doesn count for maybe lower resist charges or spirit charges (these are only allways a little weak). It think increasing charges and lowering cost would greatly improve item variety. Imho.

@ReactionTime-1543

Currently, faster cast suffixes available are Apprentice (10% FCR) and Magus (20% FCR). For Magical and Rare Staves, they should add two new suffixes: “Wizard” (30% FCR) and “Archwizard” (50% FCR)
Casters and FCR are already disproportionately strong. The need to remove existing FCR outweighs the need to add more.

I agree with you, that caster are to strong in general. But those buffs would only work on magic and rares (we should exclude craftet items with these buffs). So this buff would maybe do, that some magic items could be used instead of the usual uniques and runewords right?

@ReactionTime-1543

Current: +5-15% Enhanced Damage
This would inevitably bust pvp entirely, which i don’t even participate in, but can see from a mile away.

Could you explain that further? I can not see why, but not playing pvp myself.

@ReactionTime-1543

Just going down the list and back up, it’s just a wide and vast blanket of proposed buffs. No nerfs. The game is already too easy in most places, with only a few tiny niche pain spots for certain classes. Lets address the actual problems and not turn this into farmville.

My focus is buffing unused uniques to present usable alternatives to runewords. If we are talking about nerfing, then we talk about Enigma, Forti, Grief, Spirit and maybe 3-4 more op runewords. If we for example buff lidless a bit thats leads to a point where some builds would maybe use it over a spirit shield. But would not touch the already apparent problem. So only a benefit imho. But still, I guess propropes changes should be introcudes step bey step to ensure that a ptr can clearly show missbalanced items.

Regarding Amazon I only played a Multishot-Bowa, but once you had a Windforce or Faith-GMB I dont feel this build beeing to weak (far better then a good geared Throw-Barb imho). So I would wish to widen only the variety. Now its WF, Faith or ICE. Nothing else from late hell on?

@Childe-1683

This seems to have been forgotten by the folks in this thread on a few different items.

True! Thanks!

[Childe-1683]

Definitely a lot of work put in here.

My thoughts on the individual item suggestions below. I may come back to comment on the other parts (crafting, etc.) but need to take a break as this was already quite long. I’ve used a green circle to mark items that I think would be very appealing, a yellow circle to mark items that seem like they might have uses or may still fall just barely short from being competitive, which I think is actually still fine since not everything needs to or can be meta gear, and a red circle to mark items that I think fall significantly short from being useful. An arrow separates where I think the item stands currently (on the left) with what is proposed (on the right). Where I’ve noted that the ratings given applies to low levels, this is generally referring to the level the item can first be equipped up to a few levels higher. Many of them fall off a sharp cliff into uselessness after several levels. Finally, double exclamation points mark items where I think the proposed changes are potentially much more significant than seems to have been considered and raise major flags.

I preface my remarks by saying I tried to keep them short. Any terseness is just because there are literally over a hundred items to get through.

• Tyrael’s Might: Aside from Teleport charges that feel random/extraneous, this seems solid. Lower resistances than Chains of Honor, but Cannot Be Frozen, 20% FRW and a few other ancillary benefits could make it an interesting choice between the two armors in certain situations. This might not even need the Defiance Aura, but I’m not sure.
• Arkaine’s Valor: These changes look good. +2 to All Skills and 3 Sockets could open up some interesting options.
• Gladiator’s Bane: This runs into the o-skill +3 cap for native classes with +3-6 to Iron Skin.
• Templar’s Might: these changes look good.
• Steel Carapace: I still don’t see how this doesn’t get left on the floor or sold to a vendor.
• Leviathan: It’s very unclear who would use this. Maybe there’s some budget use case for a mercenary?
• Crown of Ages: Blizzard would need to first fix the curse-shrine duration issue (separating the two). That said, I don’t know that this item even needs a buff.
• Dragonscale: Seems fine.
• Alma Negra: Sure.
• Medusa’s Gaze: Switching to on striking definitely makes this more interesting, although it’s not clear which class wants to really use it either way.
• Head Hunter’s Glory: Not sure how the changes reflect the theme of the item, and they don’t do nearly enough to make it a strong (or viable) item.
• Spike Thorn: One thing that sets off red flags for me is suggesting multiple items in different item slots give the same aura. I’m not familiar enough with the Thorns aura scaling to know if it creates an issue here, but something that should be watched.
• Spirit Ward: Sure. Still can’t see anyone using it outside of maybe (a very, very hard maybe) some niche dueling application.
• Nightwing’s Veil: Does this really need a buff? I wouldn’t complain loudly if this were implemented, as Frozen Orb is my favorite skill and this would just mean sinking 2-3 fewer hard points into Cold Mastery and getting an ancillary Dexterity bonus, but the helm is already a good choice.
• Giant Skull: Fun flavor. Still not convinced anyone would use it.
• Steel Shade: This would continue being vendor trash.
• Blackoak Shade: Ditto.
• Soul Drainer: Also probably won’t get much use, but slow 30% is pretty hefty, so it’s certainly something to consider.
• Steelrend: This would be pretty spicy depending on the splash radius.
• Marrowwalk: These boots already have uses. I’m not sold on throwing a valuable affix like Cannot Be Frozen around like this, as that then undermines other items that have their own niche viability because they have CBF. The skeletal mage buff seems fine for the current state of the game given how lousy skeletal mages are, but the skill itself needs improvement, so if/once it’s improved, I question this item needing to boost it further.
• Sandstorm Trek: The boots are already decent, and this buff feels incredibly random.
• Azurewrath: Buff seems fine. One idea that may be interesting to consider, although maybe it’s too much - I don’t know - would be giving it -100% to Requirements to mirror Tyrael’s Might.
• The Grandfather: Buffs seem solid.
• Flamebellow: I’m not sure I understand adding Fire Wall in context of the name (which Inferno plays into very well). I still can’t imagine it getting used for Inferno though. The more likely outcome seems to be it getting used for Fire Mastery, where Assassin and some other classes might run wild. I’m not sure the full implications of having this as an o-skill.
• Frostwind: Cyclone Armor as an o-skill might make this interesting on its own. Cold Mastery as an o-skill seems risky. It might make this a best-in-slot item for hurricane druids. You would lose FCR and resistances from Heart of the Oak, but damage would nearly double in many cases. That may be too much. I’m not sure.
• Doombringer: Transformation skills tend to be pretty bad in D2, including both Delirium and the Trang set effect. The reanimate is interesting, although probably not enough for this to get used.
• Djinn Slayer: Are there animation issues with giving Whirlwind to classes other than Barbarian and Assassin? I don’t know how that animation is structured, so maybe it pulls from existing attack animations and would be fine. Something to consider. I also wonder if this would be a budget Chaos or actually replace it somehow.
• Elegant Blade: Unclear who wants this.
• Lightsabre: Telekinesis and Slow Missiles here are amusing for the flavor. Kudos. I don’t think this actually adds to usability, but at least it’s thematic.
• Ghostflame: Interesting concept.
• Wizardspike: Wizardspike already has some niche uses, so while it could get a buff, it’s probably not strictly necessary. That said, I’m just not sure why Teleport charges specifically were chosen here. It feels like there was an attempt to shoehorn Teleport into several items.
• Executioner’s Justice: The deadly strike is very on-theme, but I still can’t imagine this getting used.
• Ethereal Edge: I question how much code would would have to be done to make this work in D2. Setting aside implementation issues, this seems fine, although still not that impressive.
• Rune Master: Is this referring only to runes socketed in Rune Master, or all runes socketed into items the character wears? If it’s just Rune Master, this is probably still significantly underwhelming. If it’s all items, it’s potentially very spicy. Both probably have some implementation concerns.
• Messerschmidt’s Reaver: I doubt this buff makes the item desirable given the abundance of +% damage sources already available, plus this being a two-handed weapon excludes the possibility of wearing a Phoenix runeword shield.
• Hellslayer: Still can’t see this getting used. Two-handed weapons trade off a lot of advantages from having affixes on a shield.
• Cranebeak: Not sure about the implementation of the +3 number of Ravens, but assuming it can be implemented, it’s interesting.
• The Cranium Basher: A little hard to evaluate, but it seems strong for any character willing to invest in getting 253 Strength, or for anyone who Strength bugs it on.
• Stormlash: This item already has uses. I’m not convinced it needs buffs. Also, adding 1 socket seems unnecessary. Larzuk can do that.
• Schaefer’s Hammer: Are there enough affix slots to add more? I can’t remember the maximum for unique items. Between being ethereal/indestructible, the increased ED%, the sockets (allowing e.g. Shael for IAS), and the Static Field it already had, this would probably have a use somewhere, possibly in the same spots as Stormlash.
• Earth Shifter: Changes look good. The FCR buff would be a welcome boost considering the hefty investment to be able to equip it and the tradeoff of not using a shield.
• Nord’s Tenderizer: It would remain a fairly underwhelming weapon.
• Stone Crusher: Doubtful this would get used, but feels thematic.
• Astreon’s Iron Ward: Ditto.
• Baranar’s Star: Interesting tradeoffs here with Kingslayer, seems fair. Maybe this does something interesting with a Vengeance o-skill Sorceress.
• Demon Limb: Primary use would probably just be saving on repair costs for the charges. I don’t see how ethereal or the Damage to Demons buffs would actually make anyone use it for melee. This makes it feel like it’s actually a quality of life request for people who use it to prebuff. (Rating based on actual use outside of prebuff charges.)
• Heaven’s Light: Seems fine. At the very least it’s unique with the shrine duration buff.
• Arioc’s Needle: Buffs seem fine. I doubt it would see any more use though.
• Viperfork: The poison Amazon skills are javelin skills, not spear skills. The +skills and skill damage buffs seems mismatched to that reality. I doubt Druid would ever want this, and Necromancer certainly does not.
• Stormspire: Another thematic buff that likely wouldn’t make the item any more desirable outside of novelty.
• Steel Pillar: Ditto.
• Hellrack: Probably in the same boat.
• Blood Raven’s Charge: The o-skills here might be interesting with the Revive charges, at least for possible use in hardcore for additional survivability.
• Gut Siphon: Another one where it’s thematically appropriate but probably wouldn’t see much use.
• Eaglehorn: Not a lot to say.
• Mang Song’s Lesson: Certainly would help this be at all worth considering, and fixes the fire/physical issue.
• Ondal’s Wisdom: Not clear if Shiver Armor is intended to be an o-skill here (and if so if it was thought about that the +3-5 caps at +3 for a Sorceress). There do seem to be a lot of o-skills in these suggestions, which I don’t think is always the best choice. (Rating it ignoring any super niche importance of the 5% Experience and taking it as-written as an o-skill.)
• Boneshade: I’m not convinced it makes sense to have a unique that would be so incredibly similar to the White runeword.
• Metalgrid: Sure, why not.
• Wisp Projector: These would continue to really only be useful for their absorb (whether for PvM or BM duels). But that’s fine.
• Nature’s Peace: Sure. Replenish Life has always been underwhelming, and even cranked up like this it would probably only have very niche applications, if any.
• The Rising Sun: Another trend I’m noticing is the proliferation of -% Enemy Resistance. This feels like an outgrowth out of recent conversations on the Sunder charms, and while I think it’s probably fine in this instance, admittedly it makes me look a bit askance at these items.
• Atma’s Scarab: Sure.
• Carrion Wind: Would a rabies Druid want this? Hard for me to gauge who wants a mid-level Poison Nova without synergies on striking. But either way it’s probably better than where it was before.
• Crescent Moon: Sure. Probably still very lackluster, but why not.
• Saracen’s Chance: Interesting and may have some applications in dueling.
• Dwarf Star: Another one like Wisp Projector where it’s not clear it needs a buff or that the buff makes it appealing for any other uses than the ones it already had.
• The Mahim-Oak Curio: This seems fine. It would continue only being useful for low levels, but it might retain its usefulness slightly longer as magic and rare amulets start having the possibility of +skills. (Rating for finding it at low levels.)
• The Eye of Etlitch: Half Freeze Duration seems fair and fitting. It’s not clear where the DR% fits in thematically. (Rating mainly for low levels, although it has niche applications for cold duration as well with Bowazon.)
• Nokozan Relic: Most of this item’s low-level value comes from the huge resistance and FHR. The damage buff is hard to gauge as it’s fairly significant at level 10 but drops off very quickly. (Rating for finding at low levels.)
• Corpsemourn: Very hard to evaluate +20 to Corpse Explosion as an o-skill, but I think a general point worth noting is that massive o-skill levels tend to be reserved for elite items rather than exceptional or normal items.
• Black Hades: Buffs seem fine, and maybe would give it relevant for solo self-found mid-levels. Outside of that, I think it would continue being useless but at least not actively bad.
• Que-Hegan’s Wisdom: This seems like it would become decent budget caster armor, not as good for resistances or FCR as Vipermagi, but with some relevance for the mana after kill.
• Atma’s Wail: Thematically it’s unclear what the original was ever going for, so it’s hard to say if the buffs are appropriate or not. Balance-wise it would be fine but probably still unappealing in most situations given the existence of other options.
• Toothrow: Sure, why not.
• Guardian Angel: The buff makes it better for non-Paladin classes, but in some ways at the expense of the flavor. I’m of two minds on this. (It has an existing clear use case for hardcore and some niche dueling applications.)
• Duriel’s Shell: Very thematic. Holy Freeze is broadly useful, so along with the decent resistances and CBF, this would probably find at least niche uses. Does Charge as an o-skill require any animation work for non-Paladins though?
• Crow Caw: Sure, seems fair and could maybe be a budget option for some setups.
• Spirit Forge: Another one where I’m wondering if the -Enemy Resistance is just here because of recent Sunder charm discussions. That said, it certainly doesn’t break anything for this item given the lack of +skills, FCR, etc.
• Skin of the Flayed One: At levels where this armor would be even slightly worth considering, this would be about +10-15 to Vitality. I’m not sure these buffs move the needle on this item much, but not every item needs to be top shelf.
• Radament’s Sphere: Who is using unsynergized Poison Explosion as an o-skill?
• Gerke’s Sanctuary: Amusing chance to cast skill here. Between the resistances, DR, +1 to skill and that, this could probably be a budget option for something.
• Lidless Wall: Seems fair to make this a potential sidegrade to Spirit.
• Stormchaser: Buffs seem fine. It still suffers from the lack of synergies. Even a Sorceress or Druid wearing it can’t get synergies for all the skills it has since they come from multiple classes. The biggest buff is probably the CBF. (Rated for low levels.)
• Lance Guard: Seems fine. If found at low levels it’s marginally more interesting. It continues to be worthless beyond that. (Rated for low levels.)
• Visceratuant: The skill buff would make it an okay budget option.
• Crown of Thieves: I don’t know if there are implementation issues with the keys affix, but it’s all quite thematic. That said, +to Find Item o-skill might actually make this a best-in-slot helm for some gold find and/or magic find builds, and it might even cause issues displacing gold find Barbarians.
• Valkyrie Wing: This would jump from being mediocre to very strong.
• Darksight Helm: Seems fine moving from charges to an o-skill here. Unlikely to find any more use.
• Waterwalk: Evade as an o-skill seems incredibly dangerous to give. These were never all that great except as a budget item and for the +Life and max resist, but this would immediately be an incredibly strong end-game viable item.
• Infernostride: Buff seems fine. Main use would probably just be proc’ing it for the short burst of FRW.
• Lava Gout: I don’t think this substantially changes the item’s value, but the extra bit of Attack Rating from 5 more levels of Enchant is probably welcome for anyone that does find this at mid/low level.
• Ghoulhide: The damage to demons feels tacked on / out of theme.
• Gravepalm: This feels like it would just become best-in-slot gloves for cold Sorceress, which already had good options with Magefist, Trang’s, and Frostburn. The combined FCR, skill damage and revives (for meat shields) seems like a lot for very little cost. And again, this is coming from someone whose favorite skill is Frozen Orb.
• Venom Grip: This feels like another -Enemy Resist that’s here because of Sunder charms. The gloves would certainly be much stronger.
• Snowclash: These skills would be terrible o-skills because of the lack of synergies. Usability would be exactly the same as before, except stronger. This would just give Blizzard sorceress the choice to +3 instead of +2 to Blizzard if they wanted to choose this over Arachnid.
• Gloom Trap: It feels odd to add FCR to a belt with mana stolen per hit and then justify it by changing the mana stolen per hit. It’s a completely different belt at that point. It would certainly be an okay budget FCR belt, but I question if that’s the right approach to this.
• Swordguard: I’m not sure how to evaluate the blocking buffs here.
• Todesfaelle Flamme: Seems fine. Certainly more entertaining visually when a Fire Wall erupts where you strike. Probably still useless given the lack of skill synergies, etc.
• The Atlantean: Again the 1 socket seems odd. Larzuk can do this. The buffs seem fine but unlikely to make it desirable.
• Crainte Vomir: Not that the original ever really played into the name well, but this feels like a missed opportunity to tap into that. (The name Crainte Vomir roughly means “fear vomit.”) In any case, having Vigor and Fanatacism would certainly be entertaining for solo play if you found this at a level-appropriate point in the game. I don’t think it would be compelling enough to keep it (even using the upgrade formula to make it Elite).
• Plague Bearer: This is a nerf for Druid because of how o-skills are capped.
• Ginther’s Rift: Sure.
• Hexfire: FCR feels out of place on a weapon with Ignore Target’s Defense and Enhanced Damage. Granted, the original weapon is a mess. That said, evaluating it as written, this seems like a fine low level item as a step between Leaf and Oculus if you can somehow justify the points into Dexterity (or respec them later).
• Bloodletter: I’m still not convinced so many skills need to be made o-skills.
• Stormspike: Another -Enemy Resistance that stands out to me. Changing Charged Bolt to On Striking made me slightly curious if there was some way to kludge together a Zeal Sorceress (to have a decent attack speed) to take advantage of synergies and Lightning Mastery, but then I remembered Zeal is only available in the weapon slot anyway. Given those are off the table, this seems pretty mediocre still.
• Blackbog’s Sharp: Another case where the o-skills run into the +3 cap for the native class.
• Heart Carver: The buffs seem fine for a budget Find Item magic find Barbarian.
• The Minotaur: Certainly an appropriate spot for Charge as an o-skill. Same questions about the animation posed previously. Not likely to be competitive, but again not every item can be a winner.
• Pompeii’s Wrath: Sure.
• Islestrike: O-skills don’t even make sense here since those skills are limited to the were-shapes. Setting that aside, buffing them from +1 to +3 certainly makes this a bit more interesting. Maybe some budget use.
• Spellsteel: Can unique items have 13 affixes? If they can, these spells are certainly much more useful for melee at least. The massive number of charges seems odd / unnecessary though. Probably still really only useful for solo self-found though.
• Butcher’s Pupil: Appropriate.
• Warlord’s Trust: Sure.
• Bloodtree Stump: Same.
• The Gavel of Pain: Again this seems like a quality of life feature for people using it just for the charges on weapon swap, similar to the Demon Limb.
• Moonfall: Amusing. Doesn’t seem terribly useful, but definitely amusing. At least it could be another super budget option for mid-level Druids. I don’t think it needs those as o-skills though.
• Sureshrill Frost: Sure. Replacing charges with chance to cast seems fine in several places given how bad skill charges tend to be and unsynergized skills are in general.
• Grim’s Burning Dead: Not super clear if these are intentionally written as o-skills. I suspect in this case it’s actually not intended, but I’m not sure. Seems fine overall. (Rating for budget mid-level.)
• Pierre Tombale Couant: Sure. The IAS helps this item quite a bit to not be super bad. (Rating for budget mid-level.)
• The Impaler: O-skill +3 cap issue. No balance issues with these as o-skills, but as with many others, I just question if we need all these mediocre o-skills.
• Demon Machine: -Physical Resistance feels out of place with explosive bolts. Reanimate as demon imp is cute but I suspect pretty ineffectual overall.
• Goldstrike Arch: Buffs are fine, nothing to write home about.
• Endlesshail: +3 o-skill cap issue.
• Skystrike: This might not be absolutely terrible at low levels with this change, since level 12 meteor is decent at that point even without synergies. (Rating for budget low level.)
• Skull Collector: Sure. 2-handed staves are mostly bad, and FCR helps. (Rating reflects niche budget magic find applications.)
• Chromatic Ire: On a 2-handed weapon having these as o-skills is probably less problematic, but this still feels like a “proceed with caution” situation.
• Heavenly Garb: Sure. (Rating for low level.)
• Rattlecage: Maybe add a chance to cast Grim Ward on kill affix to keep some of the flavor while removing the terrible flee affix. (Rating for low level.)
• Silks of the Victor: Sure. (Rating for low level.)
• Goldskin: 1 socket/Larzuk. Self-repair seems extraneous. Pickup radius is interesting but might have implementation issues. Gold find seems fine, I guess. Keeps it at least slightly closer to the Wealth runeword. (Rating for low level gold find.)
• Rockfleece: Sure. (Rating for low level.)
• Boneflesh: Sure. (Rating for low level.)
• Iceblink: Not convinced Frozen Armor needs to be available as an o-skill. CBF seems appropriate. (Rating for low level.)
• Venom Ward: Sure. (Rating for low level.)
• Sparkling Mail: Sure. (Rating for low level.)
• Twitchthroe: Sure. (Rating for low level.)
• Hawkmail: Sure, why not. Maybe a low level cold bowazon will find some use with it. (Rating for low level.)
• Blinkbat’s Form: Sure. (Rating for low level.)
• The Centurion: Sure. (Rating for low level.)
• Wall of the Eyeless: Not clear why this should be Fire/Cold/Poison instead of either just Poison (how it started) or Fire/Cold/Lightning/Poison. But in any case. (Rating for low level.)
• Bverrit Keep: Sure. (Rating for low level.)
• Undead Crown: Maybe it would make more sense to switch the damage/AR from undead to animals instead of from undead to demons, since animals are more naturally ‘living.’ The rest seems fine, but I’d probably not put CBF on this since it’s doing a lot of other things already. (Rating for low level.)
• Howltusk: I guess this works. The original item has the fleeing issue, so I get why throwing skills were brought in. The name has always struck me as wanting to be related to the war cries tree, but it’s a matter of preference/interpretation. (Rating for low level.)
• The Face of Horror: The switch from strength to dexterity feels arbitrary. Hit causes monster to flee continues to be a disaster for items it’s on. (Rating for low level.)
• Tarnhelm: The defense boost seems fair. I don’t think it needs the gold find bump though. It’s already a very solid early game item, with +skill, magic find and gold find. (Rating for low level.)
• Coif of Glory: Sure. (Rating for low level.)
• Tearhaunch: Increasing the FRW to 40% along with making Vigor an o-skill seems like it might have some implications beyond low levels, particularly with the D2R fast-cast buttons. It might be alright since 30% FRW tri-res boots would still be better in most situations (just for having much higher resistances), but the fact that’s even a question with a pair of normal unique boots raises some yellow flags. Also while I get that removing the Dexterity and Strength helps (minorly) to offset the other buffs, I think the fact that existing affixes had to get removed helps highlight that what was added is known to be very potent.
• Treads of Cthon: Charge o-skill animation question again. Biggest implication would be getting these at level 15 and chugging mana potions to race through Acts 2-5 if you lack teleport. (Rating for low level.)
• Gorefoot: Big question on how Leap works as an o-skill in terms of animations for the other classes. Open wounds buff seems fine. (Rating for low level.)
• Frostburn: Forget what I said about the other pair of gloves. This would become best in slot for cold Sorceress. Can’t decide between 20% FCR from Magefist or Trang gloves or +40% mana from Frostburn? Get both! And +1 to cold skills! And some cold resistance to help offset your Sunder charm. Frostburn already has uses. It doesn’t need this.
• Magefist: Not nearly as egregious as the Frostburn buffs, but Magefist also already has uses and doesn’t need a further buff. _circle: _circle:
• The Hand of Broc: Unclear to me why this item has completely transformed into a totally different item. Obviously stronger, but now it’s clearly aimed at casters (Paladins and Necromancers) in the early game, when previously it was for melee. (Rating for low level.)
• Bladebuckle: Buffs feel off-theme. (Rating for low level.)
• Nightsmoke: Energy Shield as an o-skill is an odd duck, since without the Telekinesis synergy it’s pretty bad. The belt itself is currently fine for low level, and obviously turning up the mana from 20 to 50 makes it stronger. (Rating for low level.)
• Snakecord: The proposed buff completely changes how this item functions. The existing item works on non-poison physical attack builds to suppress life regen. The latter doesn’t but provides a buff to poison skills. It’s hard to compare the original with the change. Honestly, it would probably be fine having both affixes since the skill damage being just 3-5% is fairly small and only relevant for certain builds. / (Rating for low level, depending on whether the build has poison skills or not.)
• Lenymo: Sure. (Rating for low level.)
• Humongous: Sure. (Rating for low level.)
• The Iron Jang: Not clear why anyone would want the Frost Nova or Nova as o-skills due to the synergy issue, and level 2 Blaze is too low for the FRW to be a consideration. (Rating for low level.)
• Blastbark: Seems fine since there are already “fires explosive arrows/bolts” weapons at low level anyway. (Rating for low level.)
• Doomslinger: I’m not convinced Strafe needs to be an o-skill. (Rating for low level.)
• Ume’s Lament: Again not sold on so many o-skills. (Rating for low level.)
• Blacktongue: 100 poison damage/second (or 105-110 with the -Enemy Resistance) is actually a hefty amount at level 26. This might even be fine at 200 over 3 or 250 over 3, but it’s definitely not a significant issue since it falls off by the end of act 5. (Rating for low level.)
• Kinemil’s Awl: O-skill +3 cap issue for native class. (for Holy Fire Paladins) / (for anyone else) (Rating for low level.)
• The General’s Tan Do Li Ga: The amount of o-skill suggestions is genuinely exhausting. This is my second time going through. The first time I just read through. This time I’m refreshing & commenting. I forgot there were so many o-skill suggestions. _circle: (Rating for low level.)
• Skull Splitter: Sure. _circle: (Rating for low level.)
• Rogue’s Bow: Another o-skill I question. _circle: _circle: (Rating for low level.)
• Soulflay: Sure. (Rating for low level.)
• The Chieftain: More o-skills… and 1 socket. At least in this case it’s an item that might drop before you’ve met Larzuk. _circle: (Rating for low level.)
• The Jade Tan Do: Another o-skill. Seriously, why so many o-skills? (Rating for low level.)
• The Spire of Lazarus: This would be a very powerful find at level 18, particularly with +2 to Sorceress skills. Honestly, if it weren’t for the fact that the unique drop rate is low to the point that most players don’t see these until much higher levels, the original item would probably be fine as it is. (Rating for low level.)
• Griswold’s Edge: The repair costs affix is cute but I’m not certain if it adds any implementation issues as a separate affix from overall vendor prices. The main boon here is actually just losing knockback since it’s terrible for melee. (Rating for low level.)
• Witherstring: More o-skills. Make it stop. I’m also not sure why this is getting Spirit Wolf thematically, but the original item’s name and effects never matched, so it’s a bit of a wash. The main boost would be this dropping to level 9, where it becomes eligible for Low Level Duels. There are probably some implications there to having +3 to Spirit Wolf. I’m not well versed enough in LLD to comment, but I think it warrants some caution since it’s a small but much beloved dueling format. (Rating for low level, ignoring LLD.)
• Shadowfang: Drain life -6 is probably okay since it’s so low it almost doesn’t matter, but then that raises the question of why is it even on the item taking up both an affix slot and the player’s mental processing. -6 Light radius is pretty steep. Enchant feels unrelated to the cold/shadow theme. Changing the cold resistance and removing the cold damage feels like throwing out the theme because someone wanted to put chance to cast enchant on it instead. Ultimately it still ends up pretty mediocre, as you gain attack rating and a small amount of damage but no longer slow your enemies with cold, and now you can barely see without cranking the brightness and gamma settings. (Rating for low level.)
• The Diggler: Yet another o-skill. And this time it’s Poison Dagger again. I’m just glad I’m near the end of the items list. Dropping the level requirement obviously makes it slightly more viable if you actually find it at low level. And again the biggest implication is probably for the LLD scene, where the IAS, resistances, and +to Poison Dagger may be relevant. (Rating for low level, ignoring LLD.)
• Crushflange: Removing knockback is good and immediately makes this a decent weapon for the level you can equip it. (Rating for low level.)
• Deathspade: Sure. (Rating for low level.)
• Axe of Fechmar: Sure. (Rating for low level.)
• Pluckeye: Sure. (Rating for low level.)
• Stoutnail: More o-skills that I question. (Rating for low level.)
• Felloak: And we end on more questionable o-skills. (Rating for low level.)

[CharlesJT-1538]

@Childe-1683

Definitely a lot of work put in here.

My thoughts on the individual item suggestions below.

Thanks for the great feedback! Looks like we could tone down o-skills among other things. I will be revisting some items below with a few suggestions for improvement…

@Childe-1683

Tyrael’s Might: Aside from Teleport charges that feel random/extraneous, this seems solid.

I agree that teleport charges on TM feels extraneous and could be removed.

@Childe-1683

Gladiator’s Bane: This runs into the o-skill +3 cap for native classes with +3-6 to Iron Skin.

Instead of adding below to Gladiator’s Bane:

• +3-6 To Iron Skin
• +1-3 To Natural Resistance

How about instead make it simply +5 To Combat Masteries (Barbarian Only) and fits the theme of gladiator combat.

@Childe-1683

Head Hunter’s Glory: Not sure how the changes reflect the theme of the item, and they don’t do nearly enough to make it a strong (or viable) item.

To emphasis the theme of head hunting, maybe we should add 200% To Gold Find to make it a viable item.

@Childe-1683

Giant Skull: Fun flavor. Still not convinced anyone would use it.

In addition, maybe we should also double the chance of crushing blow from 10% to 20%.

@Childe-1683

Steel Shade: This would continue being vendor trash.

In addition to adding Cold and Lightning Absorb w/ Fire Absorb (make item tri-absorb), maybe it should also have +1 to skills.

@Childe-1683

Azurewrath: Buff seems fine. One idea that may be interesting to consider, although maybe it’s too much - I don’t know - would be giving it -100% to Requirements to mirror Tyrael’s Might.

I really like the idea of adding -100% Requirements to Azurewrath to mirror TM.

@Childe-1683

Doombringer: Transformation skills tend to be pretty bad in D2, including both Delirium and the Trang set effect. The reanimate is interesting, although probably not enough for this to get used.

How about increase Reanimate Doom Knight to 1/3 (from 16% to 33%) while removing transforms into Doom Knight as transformation skills tend to be pretty bad.

@Childe-1683

Executioner’s Justice: The deadly strike is very on-theme, but I still can’t imagine this getting used.

Maybe we should simply increase proposed DS from +75% to +100% to keep on-theme while maximizing value of this affix.

@Childe-1683

Nord’s Tenderizer: It would remain a fairly underwhelming weapon.

In addition to adding CBF and Level 16 Blizzard On Striking, we could increase cold damage from 205-455 to 305-685 (1.5X).

@Childe-1683

Viperfork: The poison Amazon skills are javelin skills, not spear skills. The +skills and skill damage buffs seems mismatched to that reality. I doubt Druid would ever want this, and Necromancer certainly does not.

We could update proposed buffs for Viperfork as follows…

• Proposed Buffs:
  • Add +3 To Javelin and Spear Skills (Amazon Only)
  • Add -10-15% to Enemy Poison Resist
  • Change Poison Damage from +325 to +999 Over 3 Seconds

@Childe-1683

Ondal’s Wisdom: Not clear if Shiver Armor is intended to be an o-skill here (and if so if it was thought about that the +3-5 caps at +3 for a Sorceress).

We could update Ondal’s Wisdom to address the o-skill cap as follows…

• Proposed Buffs:
  • Add 1-2 Open Sockets
  • Add +3 To Shiver Armor
  • Add 50% To Magic Find

@Childe-1683

Plague Bearer: This is a nerf for Druid because of how o-skills are capped.

True. Maybe for Plague Bearer, we should just increase from +5 to +7 To Rabies (Druid Only).

@Childe-1683

Islestrike: O-skills don’t even make sense here since those skills are limited to the were-shapes. Setting that aside, buffing them from +1 to +3 certainly makes this a bit more interesting. Maybe some budget use.

True. Maybe we should increase bonuses to Fury and Maul from +1 to +3 and keep it Druid Only.

@Childe-1683

Tarnhelm: The defense boost seems fair. I don’t think it needs the gold find bump though. It’s already a very solid early game item, with +skill, magic find and gold find.

Fair. We can remove the GF bump.

@Childe-1683

Kinemil’s Awl: O-skill +3 cap issue for native class.

I’m thinking for Kinemil’s Awl, we keep +6 To Holy Fire (Paladin Only) and just add 30% IAS.

@Childe-1683

Shadowfang: Drain life -6 is probably okay since it’s so low it almost doesn’t matter, but then that raises the question of why is it even on the item taking up both an affix slot and the player’s mental processing. -6 Light radius is pretty steep. Enchant feels unrelated to the cold/shadow theme. Changing the cold resistance and removing the cold damage feels like throwing out the theme because someone wanted to put chance to cast enchant on it instead. Ultimately it still ends up pretty mediocre, as you gain attack rating and a small amount of damage but no longer slow your enemies with cold, and now you can barely see without cranking the brightness and gamma settings.

Taking another look at Shadowfang, how about this version…

Shadowfang
Two-Handed Sword
One-Hand Damage: 4 To 18
Two-Hand Damage: 16 To 34
Required Level: 12
Sword Class - Fast Attack Speed
+100% Enhanced Damage
Adds 10-30 Cold Damage, Duration: 6 secs
9% Mana Stolen Per Hit
9% Life Stolen Per Hit
Cold Resist 20%
-2 To Light Radius

• Proposed Buffs:
  • Add Drain Life -6
  • Add Freezes Target +3
  • Add +6 Life After Each Demon Kill
  • Change Light Radius from -2 to -6
  • Change Cold Damage from 10-30 to 30-60

@Childe-1683

Nightsmoke: Energy Shield as an o-skill is an odd duck, since without the Telekinesis synergy it’s pretty bad. The belt itself is currently fine for low level, and obviously turning up the mana from 20 to 50 makes it stronger.

Agreed. We could remove Energy Shield as an o-skill and just keep bump in mana.

@Childe-1683

Iceblink: Not convinced Frozen Armor needs to be available as an o-skill. CBF seems appropriate.

We could keep CBF and remove Frozen Armor.

@Childe-1683

Grim’s Burning Dead: Not super clear if these are intentionally written as o-skills. I suspect in this case it’s actually not intended, but I’m not sure. Seems fine overall.

You are right and they are not intended to be o-skills and will need to update Grim’s Burning Dead.

@Childe-1683

The Atlantean: Again the 1 socket seems odd. Larzuk can do this. The buffs seem fine but unlikely to make it desirable.

How about expanding the open socket roll from 1 to 1-2 for the Atlantean…

The Atlantean
Ancient Sword
One-Hand Damage: (54-63) To (129-150)
Required Level: 42
Required Strength: 127
Required Dexterity: 88
Durability: 144
Sword Class - Fast Attack Speed
+200-250% Enhanced Damage
+2 To Paladin Skill Levels
50% Bonus To Attack Rating
+75 Defense
+8 To Vitality
+12 To Dexterity
+16 To Strength

• Proposed Buffs:
  • Add 1-2 Open Sockets
  • Add 20% To Crushing Blow
  • Change +2 To Paladin Skill Levels to +2 To All Skills

I’ll need more time to review your feedback and hopefully we can get more discussion to really fine tune the proposed buffs to uniques.

[Nickie-11685]

Damn dude, this is what passion looks like. And you can’t buy passion.

[Necromant-2961]

Helo everybode, I love the passion put into this! This is clearly a lot of work only “on paper” and a lot of work more to implement and test extensively! But implementing only a fraction would boost the games long term playability imho massivly! So lets continue making it a bit easier for the devs to catch up those ideas.

@Childe-1683

Definitely a lot of work put in here.

…and I like the amount of love you put into your post! I´m with you in the majority of cases. Balancing out everything is complex and the suggestions have been made over weeks, making it difficult to keep in line (as a part time D2R business analyst ).

Some general comments from my personal perspective:

Not every item should be BIS in any scenario. There should be rubbish, mediocre, good items erespectively in early, mid and late game. So if we boost items from that ist in most cases (imho) the ultimate goal. The top 5% should become (e.g. Tyraels), some should stay trashy, but the broad “middle class” should have at least some uses for the given requirement level. I hope we agree on this more or less

O-Skills: I had the feeling that the current proposed changes uses to many o-skill (personal optinion) as well. But I do think that in selected scenarios it would open up build diversity greatly for very interesting niche builds. On the other hand I do beliefe there should be good options char specific (e.g. I would not touch Bloodletter and make WW available for every char - besides the +3 OS Cap on Barbs then). So would like to discusse fine tuning further with you all!

Minus resists on items: It might be, that the discussions is influenced by sunder charms (I personally dont think we would had need those, immunities increase build diversity imho, but think besided the cold charm, they are balanced more or less). But I think a coutious buff on very selected items would be good to improve diversity. Lets discuss details, maybe we need a “workshop” only on those items combined!

Adding 1 OS to some items: I had the same first thought. 1 OS ist unnecessary because of Lazur quest, but then I myself would not “waste” a quest to a normal or exeptional mid-level item. So adding 1 OS for low and mid-lvl gear might be an easy option to increase viability without changeing to many other things?

You stated in some cases that the given changes would not make the item viable or end game viable. Agree with you, but thats is, as mentioned above, not the goal imho. I would likt to change items in a way that you would at least think about using it, when you find it on the “right” lvl while you playthrough or think about at least if you would put it in you stash for a later playthrough. In 80% you will come to the conclusion that you will not. But now its almost a 100% heading for “I will not use it for sure”.

LLD concerns > e.g. Witherstring: I personally dont play duels yet, but would not see why it is a problem if an item not only changing pvm playstyle as well es pvp? If an item seems in the final patch version as too OP then they will mark it as BM (e.g. Grief). The more important is that the changes will implement with a long ptr period (not only two weeks bevor a ladder start). Idealy they will present the changes and let the community vote and suggest adjustions (like you did with your above post).

Rolling options: At last I think we should not forget to make enough affixes roll, since this ad to the excitement of finding an item and hoping thats a good roll. I had the feeling, that we could/should increase the number of rolling affixes a little bit (not much though).

Hope this ist roughly the same incentive then you others follow

Now some specific comments to some items:

@Childe-1683

Tearhaunch: Increasing the FRW to 40% along with making Vigor an o-skill seems like it might have some implications beyond low levels, […] I think the fact that existing affixes had to get removed helps highlight that what was added is known to be very potent.

With you. The boots are already ok for lvl 29. I love the idea to have vigor as o-skill on boots though. Proposed changes would lift Tearhaunch to but not needed desperately. Still love the changes overall.

@Childe-1683

Treads of Cthon: Charge o-skill animation question again. Biggest implication would be getting these at level 15 and chugging mana potions to race through Acts 2-5 if you lack teleport. (Rating for low level.)

For lvl 15 imho those had been already so would not change it at all.

@Childe-1683

Frostburn: Forget what I said about the other pair of gloves. This would become best in slot for cold Sorceress. Can’t decide between 20% FCR from Magefist or Trang gloves or +40% mana from Frostburn? Get both! And +1 to cold skills! And some cold resistance to help offset your Sunder charm. Frostburn already has uses. It doesn’t need this.

I see your point. Still Frostburns not used too often. So I love the idea to make it an alternative to Magefist. How about keeping +1 Cold Skills but cut FCR from 20% to 10% and remove cold dmg and not adding cr?

@Childe-1683

Magefist: Not nearly as egregious as the Frostburn buffs, but Magefist also already has uses and doesn’t need a further buff. _circle: _circle:

I think Magefist are already super fine and would not put fr on it. We could change fire damage from 1-6 (not even relevant at lvl 23) to maybe 10-20. That would not effect endgame and only boost early game (while adding to the theme even further). But just keep them as they are, is fine imho.

@Childe-1683

Nightsmoke: Energy Shield as an o-skill is an odd duck, since without the Telekinesis synergy it’s pretty bad. The belt itself is currently fine for low level, and obviously turning up the mana from 20 to 50 makes it stronger. (Rating for low level.)

It think proposed buffs ad some spice in mid-game but not late game relevant. So I could live with both.

@Childe-1683

The Iron Jang: Not clear why anyone would want the Frost Nova or Nova as o-skills due to the synergy issue, and level 2 Blaze is too low for the FRW to be a consideration. (Rating for low level.)

So we are not switching to o-skill. How about to add another +2 to Nova, Frost Nova and Blaze?

@Childe-1683

Ume’s Lament: Again not sold on so many o-skills. (Rating for low level.)

Here I would keep Decrepify as an o-skill (terror tbd). I dont see Ume´s used for a Necro long time, but would be cool item for other classes on swap even in late game (along with some fcr and mana)? Wont be OP either.

@Childe-1683

Kinemil’s Awl: O-skill +3 cap issue for native class. (for Holy Fire Paladins) / (for anyone else) (Rating for low level.)

Dont see a prob with o-skill on this lvl 23 item as well. Its so cool looking two hander. Would even buff it a bit with +50% ed to make it even more ?

@Childe-1683

The Atlantean: Again the 1 socket seems odd. Larzuk can do this. The buffs seem fine but unlikely to make it desirable.

See my 1-OS comment on top. Lazurk could do, but you wont (you wont uprade to a mythical sword as well). So 1 OS would be an easy upgrade along with the other changes. Doesn´t create a BIS but for selfuse maybe decent?

@Childe-1683

Plague Bearer: This is a nerf for Druid because of how o-skills are capped.

For level 41 would not change to an o-skill here. Fine with the poison nova buff.

@Childe-1683

Bloodletter: I’m still not convinced so many skills need to be made o-skills.

Imho already S-tier. Would not touch it at all. Great sword bringst you deep into hell and an eth works nicely on your a5 merc for a while as well.

@Childe-1683

Blackbog’s Sharp: Another case where the o-skills run into the +3 cap for the native class.

With you, no change. Keep it necro exclusive.

@Childe-1683

The Gavel of Pain: Again this seems like a quality of life feature for people using it just for the charges on weapon swap, similar to the Demon Limb.

QOL is fine for me Like the changes suggested.

@Childe-1683

Grim’s Burning Dead: Not super clear if these are intentionally written as o-skills. I suspect in this case it’s actually not intended, but I’m not sure. Seems fine overall. (Rating for budget mid-level.)

Necro only without o-skills I would like it greatly

@Childe-1683

Goldstrike Arch: Buffs are fine, nothing to write home about.

Changes brings it to a decent imho. Used it for my Bowazon (not having a WF) and the upped version brought me deep into hell. With the given changes I guess you can beat hell with it (without its ot too much fun). And Lazurk it would not be a waste

@Childe-1683

Endlesshail: +3 o-skill cap issue.

Not sure what to do here. I could see leaving the o-skill to make it a swap for other classes. It we would leave it Ama-only we would need to put a little more love into it?

@Childe-1683

Silks of the Victor: Sure. (Rating for low level.)

Love it as well

@Childe-1683

Goldskin: 1 socket/Larzuk. Self-repair seems extraneous. Pickup radius is interesting but might have implementation issues. Gold find seems fine, I guess. Keeps it at least slightly closer to the Wealth runeword. (Rating for low level gold find.)

Increase pickup might be to much effort to implement, therefore maybe not feasable. But fits the theme greatly. Besides that I like proposed changes for a normal item to gain some gold early on. 1 OS is enough as well.

@Childe-1683

Medusa’s Gaze:

Your vote true. How about this additional change? Make it kind of more defensive?

100% To Cast Level 44 Nova When You Die 10% to cast level 30 Cold Nova when struck

@Childe-1683

Head Hunter’s Glory:

As you said, still not viable. If it rolles 3 OS then it should be used as an very cheap jmod? Would lower req. level even further to 60-65 and maybe increase life after kill from 5-7 to 8-12? As CharlesJT mentioned. Some GF could be added.

@Childe-1683

Steel Shade:

With the tri-absorb I could see this on a A3 Merc, but still no alternative to an lidless here I guess. Does +1 All Skills bring it to ? CharlesJT mentioned that as well.

@Childe-1683

Blackoak Shade:

With you. CBF is not enough. Habu lowering req vom lvl 61 to 52 and add 1-2. OS?

@Childe-1683

Marrowwalk: These boots already have uses. I’m not sold on throwing a valuable affix like Cannot Be Frozen around like this,

True, but I like the idea of having a pair of boots with CBF on it. The Necro would not rely on it, all other chars would have a tradoff to get this on boots? So I like the proposed changes.

@Childe-1683

Sandstorm Trek:

With you, already very good. Won´t touch it!

@Childe-1683

Azurewrath: Buff seems fine. One idea that may be interesting to consider, although maybe it’s too much - I don’t know - would be giving it -100% to Requirements to mirror Tyrael’s Might.

-100% req means basicially only no dex req. Biggest Problem was imho the lvl 85 req. But -100% along with the other changes doesn make it op. So thats ok.

@Childe-1683

Frostwind: Cyclone Armor as an o-skill might make this interesting on its own. Cold Mastery as an o-skill seems risky. It might make this a best-in-slot item for hurricane druids. You would lose FCR and resistances from Heart of the Oak, but damage would nearly double in many cases. That may be too much. I’m not sure.

So we need a decent ptr approval. Overall I like the changes and the needed tradeoff to wear it (no hoto).

@Childe-1683

Djinn Slayer: Are there animation issues with giving Whirlwind to classes other than Barbarian and Assassin? I don’t know how that animation is structured, so maybe it pulls from existing attack animations and would be fine. Something to consider. I also wonder if this would be a budget Chaos or actually replace it somehow.

So, if there are no technicall issues with WW on other chars we do like the changes? I guess so…

@Childe-1683

Lightsabre: Telekinesis and Slow Missiles here are amusing for the flavor. Kudos. I don’t think this actually adds to usability, but at least it’s thematic.

I played with my last throw barb this on swap for phys immunes (since I could not use my Azurewrath due to lvl 85. req). Not super good because not enough elemental dmg (therefor buffed ld vom 1-200 to 1-300). But SSF not completely useless. Shall we buff LD further to 1-450? Or Buff Magic damage from 60-120 to 150-300? Or both?

@Childe-1683

Wizardspike: Wizardspike already has some niche uses, so while it could get a buff, it’s probably not strictly necessary. That said, I’m just not sure why Teleport charges specifically were chosen here. It feels like there was an attempt to shoehorn Teleport into several items.

Not strictly necessary is true. But I love the addition of tp charges (thematicly is our wizard near a sorc I guess). Opens this one as good swap option for chars not using enigma (or you chosee due to this not using enigma in the first place). So I like reducing dependency on enigma a lot (personally would nerf enigma)!

@Childe-1683

Executioner’s Justice: The deadly strike is very on-theme, but I still can’t imagine this getting used.

Habu lowering lvl req vom 75 to 60-65? So maybe mid-game viable maybe?

@Childe-1683

Rune Master: Is this referring only to runes socketed in Rune Master, or all runes socketed into items the character wears? If it’s just Rune Master, this is probably still significantly underwhelming. If it’s all items, it’s potentially very spicy. Both probably have some implementation concerns.

As said, new mechanics are complex and costly to implement. Rune Master is not complete trash by now. Habu adding something like open wounds and some IAS instead?

@Childe-1683

Hellslayer: Still can’t see this getting used. Two-handed weapons trade off a lot of advantages from having affixes on a shield.

True. Increase ED from +100% further to 150-200%? Or 1-2 OS. I found an eth one and would love to use this…but only an iron golem comes to my mind.

@Childe-1683

Cranebeak: Not sure about the implementation of the +3 number of Ravens, but assuming it can be implemented, it’s interesting.

I like it a lot. Problem will be, that this is mainly a swap weapon and if you go back to your mainhand, then the ravens will disapear I guess?

@Childe-1683

Nord’s Tenderizer: It would remain a fairly underwhelming weapon.

True. CBF is nice but niche. So I guess its a weapon not actively smacking things. Hobu changing * Add 20% To Cast Level 16 Blizzard On Striking to 20% and “when struck”?

@Childe-1683

Stone Crusher: Doubtful this would get used, but feels thematic.

Verry niche…but have no better idea. Better then now ofc.

@Childe-1683

Demon Limb: Primary use would probably just be saving on repair costs for the charges. I don’t see how ethereal or the Damage to Demons buffs would actually make anyone use it for melee. This makes it feel like it’s actually a quality of life request for people who use it to prebuff.

QOL improvement, fine with me.

@Childe-1683

Viperfork: The poison Amazon skills are javelin skills, not spear skills. The +skills and skill damage buffs seems mismatched to that reality. I doubt Druid would ever want this, and Necromancer certainly does not.

So we need to think more about druids. Any recommendations? Otherwise CharlesJT suggestion with +3 Jav skills and -poison resist in combination with 999 pd over 3sec could suit the theme. Still barely right?

@Childe-1683

Ondal’s Wisdom: Not clear if Shiver Armor is intended to be an o-skill here (and if so if it was thought about that the +3-5 caps at +3 for a Sorceress).

The +3 cap to o-skills would be fine here imho. I guess thats a swap weapon and will be fine with a state. Reasonable to add more mf rirectly or with 1-2 OS?

@Childe-1683

The Rising Sun: Another trend I’m noticing is the proliferation of -% Enemy Resistance.

I love it here. -10-15% is not to much imho. You would sacrifice res here to wear it.

@Childe-1683

Saracen’s Chance: Interesting and may have some applications in dueling.

Love it. Used it already often mid-game, with the addiontion it opens up some niches imho.

@Childe-1683

Corpsemourn: Very hard to evaluate +20 to Corpse Explosion as an o-skill, but I think a general point worth noting is that massive o-skill levels tend to be reserved for elite items rather than exceptional or normal items.

To be ptr approved. But I guess it opens an interesting niche for several builds. Maybe Level 15 is more suitable (> ptr need imho).

@Childe-1683

Skin of the Flayed One: At levels where this armor would be even slightly worth considering, this would be about +10-15 to Vitality. I’m not sure these buffs move the needle on this item much, but not every item needs to be top shelf.

I use it on merc mid-game because of LL. Life per clvl could be 0.75 instead of 0.5 as well? I guess then it would be fine and for mid-game.

@Childe-1683

Waterwalk:

With you. Would not touch it. Already good boots.

@Childe-1683

Infernostride: Buff seems fine. Main use would probably just be proc’ing it for the short burst of FRW.

I use those on my orb-sorc even end game (full tals) because I like the combination of frw, +gold, +10% max fr. But Blaze is useless right now. So improve that would make those for most players I guess (competing with aldurs for fire sunder chars as well)? If we want to drive those even further another +10% to frw would be welcomed (personally). But not necessary.

@Childe-1683

Gravepalm: This feels like it would just become best-in-slot gloves for cold Sorceress, which already had good options with Magefist, Trang’s, and Frostburn. The combined FCR, skill damage and revives (for meat shields) seems like a lot for very little cost. And again, this is coming from someone whose favorite skill is Frozen Orb.

Hm, not sure it this will be OP (there is a tradeoff compared to chancies, magefist, trangs and the new frostburns). But good ofc. It would suits a Wind/Summon hybrid druid as well. How about lowering fcr to +10%?

So gents…pretty much stuff to discussed (post took me almost 2,5h ). But good convo!
I guess CharlesJT needs to change the obvious in the OP and then we should go through each itemn-class with all normal, exceptional and elites together step by step? But I have the feeling, that we are at the 75% mark in our “project-plan”

I wish you all a good rest of 2022 and lets continue on this in 2023

Thank you so far And sorry for a ton of typos

Cheer Christian

[CharlesJT-1538]

@Necromant-2961

I guess CharlesJT needs to change the obvious in the OP and then we should go through each itemn-class with all normal, exceptional and elites together step by step? But I have the feeling, that we are at the 75% mark in our “project-plan”

I really appreciate the feedback and suggestions from everyone in order for us to create a solid proposal to the developers for them to consider potential testing in the PTR for improving itemization. With previous discussions, here are the updates to the OP…

Tyrael’s Might

• Remove Level 7 Teleport (77 charges)

Arkaine’s Valor

• Add 1-3 Open Sockets
• Add +150-180% Enhanced Damage
• Add Level 12-14 Defiance Aura When Equipped
• Change Required Level from 85 to 80
• Change +0-49 To Vitality (+0.5 Per Clvl) to +0-149 To Vitality (+1.5 Per Clvl)

The Gladiator’s Bane

• Add +5 To Combat Masteries (Barbarian Only)
• Add Level 10-12 Thorns Aura When Equipped
• Add +10 To All Attributes
• Remove Attacker Takes Damage Of 20
• Change Required Level from 85 to 75

Dragonscale

• Change Hydra from +10 to +30
• Change Fire Skill Damage from 15% to 15-20%

Medusa’s Gaze

• Change 100% To Cast Level 44 Nova When You Die to 10% To Cast Level 15 Nova When Struck

Head Hunter’s Glory

• Add 150-200% To Gold Find

Nightwing’s Veil

• Removed from OP

Giant Skull

• Change Crushing Blow from +10% to +20%

Steel Shade

• Add +1 To All Skills

Radament’s Sphere

• Add +5 To Poison Explosion (Necromancer Only)
• Add -10-15% To Enemy Poison Resist
• Remove Level 6 Poison Explosion (40 Charges)
• Change Poison Nova Level from 5 to 15
• Change Poison Damage from +80 to +240 Over 4 Seconds

Blackoak Shield

• Add 1-2 Open Sockets
• Change Required Level from 61 to 56

Sandstorm Trek

• Removed from OP

Azurewrath

• Add Requirements -100%

Doombringer

• Remove Transforms into Doom Knight
• Change Reanimate Doom Knight from 16% to 33%

Lightsabre

• Change Magic Damage from 60-120 to 60-180
• Change Lightning Damage from 1-200 to 1-360

Executioner’s Justice

• Add +100% Chance of Deadly Strike
• Change Increased Attack Speed from 30% to 50%

Messerschmidt’s Reaver

• Add +3 To Axe Mastery (Barbarian Only)
• Add +15% Faster Run/Walk

Hellslayer

• Change Enhanced Damage from +100% to +150-200%

Cranebeak

• Add +8 To Raven (Druid Only)

Nord’s Tenderizer

• Add 20% To Cast Level 16 Blizzard On Striking
• Add 20% To Cast Level 16 Blizzard When Struck

Arioc’s Needle

• Change All Skills from +2-4 to +3-5

Viperfork

• Add +3 To Javelin and Spear Skills (Amazon Only)
• Add -10-15% to Enemy Poison Resist
• Change Poison Damage from +325 to +999 Over 3 Seconds

Stormspire

• Add +10-15% To Lightning Skill Damage

Ondal’s Wisdom

• Add 1-2 Open Sockets
• Add +3 To Shiver Armor
• Add 50-75% To Magic Find

Endlesshail

• Add 15% Chance To Cast Level 10 Blizzard On Striking

Rogue’s Bow

• Add +3 To Multiple Shot
• Add 5% Mana Stolen Per Hit

Corpsemourn

• Add +15 To Corpse Explosion

Black Hades

• Change Damage To Demons from +30-60% to +90-180%

Skin of the Flayed One

• Add +0-74 To Vitality (+0.75 Per Clvl)

Waterwalk

• Removed from OP

Treads of Cthon

• Removed from OP

Gravepalm

• Add 10% Faster Cast Rate
• Add +5% Cold Skill Damage
• Add 5% Chance To Cast Level 3 Revive When You Kill An Enemy
• Remove +100-200% Damage To Undead
• Remove +100-200 To Attack Rating Against Undead

Swordguard

• Add +5 To Concentrate (Barbarian Only)

The Atlantean

• Add 1-2 Open Sockets

Hexfire

• Remove +20% Faster Cast Rate

Plague Bearer

• Change +5 To Rabies (Druid Only) to +7 To Rabies (Druid Only)

Bloodletter

• Removed from OP

Blackbog’s Sharp

• Removed from OP

Islestrike

• Change +1 Fury (Druid Only) to +3 Fury (Druid Only)
• Change +1 Maul (Druid Only) to +3 Maul (Druid Only)

Grim’s Burning Dead

• Add +2-4 To Raise Skeletal Mage (Necromancer Only)
• Add +1-3 To Skeleton Mastery (Necromancer Only)

The Impaler

• Removed from OP

Demon Machine

• Remove -10% to Enemy Physical Resist
• Change Reanimate Demon Imp from 5% to 10%

Iceblink

• Remove +3-5 To Frozen Armor

Tarnhelm

• Remove buff to Gold Find

Snowclash

• Change Blizzard Cast from 5% to 10%
• Change Blizzard Level from 7-19 to 15-20 When Struck

Nightsmoke

• Removed from OP

Frostburn

• Add +1 To Cold Skills
• Add +10% Faster Cast Rate
• Remove 1-6 Cold Damage

Magefist

• Change Fire Damage from 1-6 to 1-24

Bladebuckle

• Change Attacker Takes Damage from 8 to 120

Tearhaunch

• Change FRW from 20% to 30%
• Change +2 To Vigor (Paladin Only) to +2 To Vigor

The Iron Jang

• Removed from OP

Kinemil’s Awl

• Add +30% Increased Attack Speed
• Change Enhanced Damage from +80-100% to +120-150%

The Jade Tan Do

• Add +3 To Poison Dagger
• Add 15% To Deadly Strike

Doomslinger

• Add 10% To Cast Level 15 Fire Ball On Striking
• Change Amazon Skill Levels from +1 to +1-2

Witherstring

• Remove +3 To Summon Spirit Wolf
• Change Magic Arrow Level from 3 to 6
• Change Damage from 1-3 to 3-6
• Change Required Level from 13 to 9

Shadowfang

• Add Drain Life -6
• Add Freezes Target +3
• Add +6 Life After Each Demon Kill
• Change Light Radius from -2 to -6
• Change Cold Damage from 10-30 to 30-60

Stoutnail

• Add +1-3 To Lycanthropy (Druid Only)

Felloak

• Add +1-3 To Firestorm (Druid Only)

Wisp Projector

• Add +1 To All Skills

Nature’s Peace

• Add +3-5% To Max Poison Resist
• Add +3-5% To Max Fire Resist
• Add +3-5% To Max Cold Resist
• Add +3-5% To Max Lightning Resist
• Remove Poison Resist +20-30%

Dwarf Star

• Add +5-10 To Strength
• Add 5% Increased Chance of Blocking
• Remove Heal Stamina Plus 15%

[Necromant-2961]

Quit an update boys

So, how to go on from here? Everybode reviews the current proposal and then we go through every segment starting with armors?

[CharlesJT-1538]

@Necromant-2961

Quit an update boys

So, how to go on from here? Everybode reviews the current proposal and then we go through every segment starting with armors?

Yeah, great work by everyone! We can review the proposed buffs to normal, exceptional or elite uniques and usually start with armor. I think the elite uniques have been discussed the most, while normal uniques the least. Also, if you have a unique item in mind that is not listed in the OP, we can discuss if you would like to add to the list. For example, we haven’t discussed class-specific unique items.

[Necromant-2961]

I was looking what had been our last discussion at Leviathan (since Childe did not seem happy with it ) and I guess we didn´t discussed it really. Same with The Centurion and Toothrow. So here again. What are your thoughts on those three? Review of armors from me tomorrow Already very late in good old europe…

@Necromant-2961

The Centurion
Normal Armor

Defense: 51-54 (varies)(Base Defense: 21-24)
Required Level: 14
Required Strength: 20
Durability: 28
+30 Defense
Replenish Life +5
+50 To Attack Rating
+15 To Mana
+15 To Max Stamina
+15 To Life
25% Slow Stamina Drain
Damage Reduced By 2

• Proposed Buffs:
  • Add +15% Faster Block Rate
  • Add +15% Increased Chance of Blocking

Really love the look and the name of this armor. Suggestions play the them nicely. But is it still be used at lvl 14?
Stats are well assorted in general. Especially I like the 25% slow stamina drain at this stage. Would love to use it, if I find it early or keep it in my stash for another playthrough. But right now, it is easily outclassed. How about this additionals buffs? Or are the two blocking additions already enough?

• Proposed Buffs:
  • Change 30 Defense to 60
  • Add 5% Chance to proc lvl 1 Open Wounds on striking
  • Add 1 OS

@Sackett-11374

@Necromant-2961

Leviathan

Kraken Shell
Defense: 1514-1722
Required Level: 65
Required Strength: 174
+170-200% Enhanced Defense
+100-150 Defense
+40-50 To Strength
Damage Reduced By 15-25%
Indestructible

• Proposed Buffs:
  • Add 15-25% Chance Of Crushing Blow
  • Add All Resistances +20%-30%

Love added CB and @Res, but i guess thats not enough to make it viable for a relatively rare find (only found once). A Leviathan portrayed often as an air or water creature. So maybe we can build something around a “wind” theme? Its an melee armor, so not sure how to make it druid viable for a windy druid. But for other classes it could have 20% chance to proc lvl 18-25 Hurricane on striking. And maybe +1 to Cyclone Armor as an o-skill? And would increase +def to 300-500. Leviathan is a big beast hard to kill.

I think Leviathan is more viable currently than you think. That plus 50 strength is a huge bonus to a player that wants to use a high strength weapon (like Cranium Basher for example). That frees up 50 points to go into Vitality. Really the major problem is the lack of resistances. Adding resistances to this is huge as most melee players cannot afford to have body armor without resistances.

@CharlesJT-1538

Toothrow
Sharktooth Armor
Defense: 713-888
Required Level: 48
Required Strength: 103
Durability: 63
+160-220% Enhanced Defense
+40-60 Defense
+40% Chance of Open Wounds
Fire Resist +15%
+10 Strength
Attacker Takes Damage of 20-40

• Proposed Buffs:
  • Add +20% Deadly Strike
  • Change Attacker Takes Damage from 20-40 to 200-400

Toothrow needs some adjustments as well to make it ?

[Necromant-2961]

Happy New Year everybody!

So, I went through my review. Not so easy since not every discussion is incorporated in the OP yet. So correct me, if I oversee a dicussion on one of the items! It might be the time to add an freely editable Google xls in the OP to show current state, current proposal and current not final discussion points…@ CharlesJT: Since your OP, you would need to include that (if thats fine for you)

[DAMNIT: Didn´t know, that we cant includes links here. Any Idea how we could still use that?]

I try to add the elite armors, your free to participate! Doc ist freely editable. So you´re all welcome! But I would welcome that we develop a pattern for elite armors then to be copied for the rest?

Valid procedure for everybody? Or to much and we stick to the current format within this Thread?

So, back to armors. I try to consider rarety within this group as well. So I roughly looked up a dropcalc (not scientifiy over here ).

1R = Not rare, drops every day twice (e.g.Duriels)
2R = Commen drop for that class of items (e.g. G-Bane)
3R = Drops but not every month (e.g. Leviathan)
4R = Rare Item (e.g. Templars)
5R = Super Rare (e.g. Tyraels)

If 2R or 3R doesn´t matter too much imho, but it´s an indication. I based my feedback on the version in the OP and try to catch ongoing discussion points (corret me plz if I missed somethin).

Tyraels (5R)
I think we are almost there. Given the rarety I still would buff it a little bit further. That should be more usefull as an Enigma in my opinion. Would also lower level to 78-80. If you find one why not finishing your playthrough with it?
Maybe we expand ED not only to Deamons? Filling a gab between Enigma and Forti?

G-Bane (2R)
With the o-skill problems we ran into more issues with adding to the theme then we solved. So I would rather then adding iron skin and nat. res go back to a classical approch of +ED and +@res?

Iron Skin > +50-80% on top of ED
Nat. Res > 12-28% @res on top
And back to change “Attacker Takes Damage Of 20” to Level 10-12 Thorns Aura When Equipped?
How about combat masteries (barb only)?

Arkaine’s Valor (3R)
Very good in the current propossal! ED vs. Deamons is bigger then Tyraels (but thats just a minor thought)

Done!

Templar’s Might (4R)
Already very good. Would maybe reduce req. still 5% more.
Strength. 232 > -20% ist 184 strength >= -25% is 174

Steel Carapace (2R)
As Childe also said. Not ready imho. Would try to make it like G-Bane and Templars.
I would add 2 OS on top of the already proposed buffs in the OP. Thats it.

Leviathan (3R)
As mention in my yesterdays post. Not ready (in line with Childes assessment).

• Proposed Buffs:
  • Add 15-25% Chance Of Crushing Blow
  • Add All Resistances +20%-30%

To playing the wind theme, ad 20% (or less) chance to proc lvl 18-25 Hurricane on striking. And maybe +1 to Cyclone Armor as an o-skill? It wont be an Druid-Armor then, but thats fine for me, since the required strength is high with 174.

What are your thoughts boys?

[CharlesJT-1538]

I wanted to wish the entire community a Happy New Year!

@Necromant-2961

Steel Carapace (2R)
As Childe also said. Not ready imho. Would try to make it like G-Bane and Templars.
I would add 2 OS on top of the already proposed buffs in the OP. Thats it.

For Steel Carapace, that seems like a solid suggestion of adding 1-2 OS and how about doubling FHR to 40% (instead of 30%). Although, I think we should remove Lightning Resist as it doesn’t fit being steel (keep proposed fire resist)…

Steel Carapace
Shadow Plate
Defense: 1618-1785
Required Level: 66
Required Strength: 230
Durability: 70
+190-220% Enhanced Defense
Regenerate Mana 10-15%
+20% Faster Hit Recovery
Cold Resist +40-60%
Damage Reduced by 9-14
Repairs 1 Durability in 20 Seconds
8% To Cast Level 6 Iron Maiden When Struck

• Proposed Buffs:
  • Add 1-2 Open Sockets
  • Add -20% Requirements
  • Add Fire Resist +20-30%
  • Add 8% To Cast Level 6 Iron Maiden On Striking
  • Change Faster Hit Recovery from 20% to 40%

@Necromant-2961

Leviathan (3R)
As mention in my yesterdays post. Not ready (in line with Childes assessment).

• Proposed Buffs:
  • Add 15-25% Chance Of Crushing Blow
  • Add All Resistances +20%-30%

For Leviathan, what if the proposed crushing blow scaled with character level similar to Highlords. In addition, add all resist and 5% more PDR as shown below…

Leviathan
Kraken Shell
Defense: 1514-1722
Required Level: 65
Required Strength: 174
+170-200% Enhanced Defense
+100-150 Defense
+40-50 To Strength
Damage Reduced By 15-25%
Indestructible

• Proposed Buffs:
  • Add All Resistances +15-25%
  • Add +0-49% Crushing Blow (0.5 Per Clvl)
  • Change Physical Damage Reduced from 15-25% to 20-30%

@Necromant-2961

G-Bane (2R)
With the o-skill problems we ran into more issues with adding to the theme then we solved. So I would rather then adding iron skin and nat. res go back to a classical approch of +ED and +@res?

Iron Skin > +50-80% on top of ED
Nat. Res > 12-28% @res on top
And back to change “Attacker Takes Damage Of 20” to Level 10-12 Thorns Aura When Equipped?
How about combat masteries (barb only)?

Agreed. Already made change to combat masteries for barb only…

The Gladiator’s Bane
Wire Fleece
Defense: 1255-1496
Required Level: 85
Required Strength: 111
Durability: 135
+150-200% Enhanced Defense
+50 Defense
Cannot Be Frozen
30% Faster Hit Recovery
Poison Length Reduced By 50%
Attacker Takes Damage Of 20
Damage Reduced By 15-20
Magic Damage Reduced By 15-20

• Proposed Buffs:
  • Add +5 To Combat Masteries (Barbarian Only)
  • Add Level 10-12 Thorns Aura When Equipped
  • Add +10-15 To All Attributes
  • Remove +50 Defense
  • Remove Attacker Takes Damage Of 20
  • Change Required Level from 85 to 80

@Necromant-2961

Toothrow needs some adjustments as well to make it ?

As Toothrow is a sharktooth armor, how about we buff OW to 66% and add 33% DS (instead of 20%) as shown below…

Toothrow
Sharktooth Armor
Defense: 713-888
Required Level: 48
Required Strength: 103
Durability: 63
+160-220% Enhanced Defense
+40-60 Defense
+40% Chance of Open Wounds
Fire Resist +15%
+10 Strength
Attacker Takes Damage of 20-40

• Proposed Buffs:
  • Add +33% Deadly Strike
  • Change Open Wounds from +40% to +66%
  • Change Attacker Takes Damage from 20-40 to 200-400

@Necromant-2961

Same with The Centurion

For the Centurion, how about adding enhanced damage and fits the theme of military conquest and compliments the attack rating nicely…

The Centurion
Normal Armor
Defense: 51-54 (varies)(Base Defense: 21-24)
Required Level: 14
Required Strength: 20
Durability: 28
+30 Defense
Replenish Life +5
+50 To Attack Rating
+15 To Mana
+15 To Max Stamina
+15 To Life
25% Slow Stamina Drain
Damage Reduced By 2

• Proposed Buffs:
  • Add +30-50% Enhanced Damage
  • Add +15% Faster Block Rate
  • Add +15% Increased Chance of Blocking

[Necromant-2961]

@Necromant-2961

Steel Carapace

Make FHR roll from 30 - 40. So we need to keep on hunting for the perfect one.

@CharlesJT-1538

Leviathan

So nobody is really a fan of the “hurricane when struck” theme Ok, got it.
CB per Level doesnt hurt. Still dont see using it for me though

@CharlesJT-1538

The Gladiator’s Bane

Sounds okay, but still no res on a melee armor sounds tough. Would ad 20-30 at least. Or it will be really limited to barbarians only, with one point in nat. resist they have.

@CharlesJT-1538

Toothrow

Thats a winner now. It´s already used as an eth version. But with that it would find its uses. Im sure! Done!

@CharlesJT-1538

The Centurion

Done!

@Necromant-2961

Tyraels (5R)

So your are totally fine with the current proposal of the rarest item in the game? Or is it just me
I think when sweeping tele charges, we need something else to make it compete with Enigma?

@Necromant-2961

Maybe we expand ED not only to Deamons? Filling a gab between Enigma and Forti?

And would you be so kind to ad this to elite maces for a later discussion to the OP? Just found one. We need to talk

Horizon’s Tornado
Unique Scourge

One-Hand Damage: (9-11) To (264-304)
Required Level: 64
Required Strength: 100
Required Dexterity: 62
Durability: 65
Base Weapon Speed: [-10] +230-280% Enhanced Damage
+50% Damage To Undead
+50% Increased Attack Speed
Slows Target By 20%
20% Chance To Cast Level 15 Tornado On Striking
Requirements -20%