A portion of older Diablo 2 players are very resistant to change, why?

[Pede-2852]

I am very resistant to Blizzard making changes with their current dev team. Problem here is the only persons qualified to make any changes to this old game and preserve the feel and legacy of D2 no longer work for Blizzard. The current dev team and the way they run things now at blizzard is only gonna turn the game into one of their dumpster fire , WoW lookalike, trash games like D4

[Johnson-2920]

@Anu-11792

Now 3 years later they are alone in the game overall because the masses left because the masses want novelty

The game was never going to be able to keep up with the amount of novelty the masses want anyways. What the masses want is novelty for the sake of novelty, which means perpetually reinventing the wheel. This requires a heavy team to add content, and perpetual monetization to pay for it. This would have pushed away the community coming back because they love D2, and it’s unlikely it would have kept newcomers, which would have already left due to the aging mechanics of the game.

[Anu-11792]

@Johnson-2920

which means perpetually reinventing the wheel

There is always a way to make a system that solid enough to provide long term gameplay
Ain’t D2 good enough proof of that?

It’s been popular for so long because it’s gameplay felt fresh for so long

Now that is tired you just need to another twist to make it last

Don’t need to constantly inject new stuff when you got a solid game with a brilliant loop

That’s one reason why in my mod I’m adding stuff like

• simplified rune stacking, so you don’t hit that cluttered stash wall

• true unique upgrades with big roll variation, so the odds of rolling perfect are lesser so you have to try again. This also buffs the holy grail challenge (chase)

• synergy and Oskill changes, so that there is a crapload more possible builds

• logical crafting rework where the affixes of the sacrificed item have odds of staying, giving magic items a meaning, making people want to pick them up (chase)

• unique reskin, so people like how their characters look, being gated behind endgame currency this pushes them to keep playing even when the end is hit

There is plenty of other small changes that can be done to extend to lifetime of the game for long

Adding a Holygrail counter for example

By making it and ingame official counter you get more people to participate in that journey

You can even add another challenge that’s super easy to make with hardcoding ability

King of the hells: where you use the /players mechanic with the den of evil Remaining counter and expand it to the game

The more you kill monsters in a game the more the remaining ones become stronger and more rewarding. This makes the whole game a viable playground. Create strategies as people will need to avoid certain types at empowered levels, etc

[OShogun-1317]

@Meryver-11425

A portion of Diablo 2 players seem to live in another time. They often forget that the game is a product, that the company benefits from selling this product and that to do so it is necessary to adapt the product to the demands of current and potential customers.
Many argue that it is possible to preserve the nature of the game by adding other elements that can make the game more attractive to today’s players, but resistance in many cases makes no point, it does not show any flexibility or willingness to innovate even if quite restricted.
The natural conclusion, not regarding the question asked, but from the company’s point of view, is one: no matter how good the product is, investing in it does not seem to be a good deal.

When it comes to fanbases of retro games, some are naturally more welcoming of changes than others. Imo it boils down to many things.

Good faith earned by the devs: The Diablo 2 community does not trust modern Blizzard to deliver the experience they want. Most of them hated the game design decisions taken in Diablo 3 and Diablo 4 and are naturally gonna be inclined to be skeptical or wary of any attempts Blizzard make to change D2. If you look at some other fanbases that are more welcoming to changes in remasters, like Age of Empires, they trust the devs because the devs have been communicative with the community and have a history of delivering quality products. That’s why, despite Age of Empires 2 Definitive Edition having significant changes compared to the original game, including some QoL changes that sparked some controversy (like autoscout button and auto-reseed farms), it’s overall a really well received product by the core audience that keeps getting DLCs that add new content 20 years later. For example, I actually quite like modern Diablo games, but fully understand that they are a bit too much of a departure for long running fans of the series and that blizzard dropped the ball hard in many occasions, the most infamous one being Diablo Immortal.

Game’s culture: Some games just have more conservative fanbases in general. Diablo 2 I’d say is a middle ground, they were reasonably welcoming to some of the changes in D2R like auto gold pickup and instant cast hotkeys. Starcraft fandom would probably be upset even with minor changes like this, which is why starcraft remastered has very little in terms of QoL improvements. I think they got away with adding the option to rebind keys and that was it. Then there’s games that want the “classic +” type of experience. World of Warcraft Season of Mastery was one such example, it was fairly successful. And probably the most well known case is Oldschool Runescape, which is kind of an “alternative timeline” version of runescape where runescape 2 continued being actively developed and receiving new content and runescape 3 never happened.

[KosmO-21959]

@OShogun-1317

which is why starcraft remastered has very little in terms of QoL improvements

Im BW fan and player since 1999 and one thing why I stopped playing is no changes. Before SCR Blizz asked pros about changes and they finally decidted to not change anything, even Dragoon movement and Scarab bug. Scout and Ghosts are still useless, but no1 cares so I dont care about SCR anymore except ASL and KCM Race Survivals, maybe its better for pros that less ppl play the game and these ppl just watching their vods and tournaments xD

[OShogun-1317]

@KosmO-21959

Im BW fan and player since 1999 and one thing why I stopped playing is no changes. Before SCR Blizz asked pros about changes and they finally decidted to not change anything, even Dragoon movement and Scarab bug. Scout and Ghosts are still useless, but no1 cares so I dont care about SCR anymore except ASL and KCM Race Survivals, maybe its better for pros that less ppl play the game and these ppl just watching their vods and tournaments xD

Honestly the only thing I ever bothered with BW is UMS and campaigns. As an actual RTS I usually prefer games like AoE 2 that have longer early/mid games and a bit of a slower pace overall. I just don’t have the quick wit to play starcraft in any competitive capacity lol

[Baalor-1885]

@Meryver-11425

A portion of Diablo 2 players seem to live in another time.

Yup, and D2R is the pacifier to keep them happy. Its somewhat working. The 12 people playing consistently seem to enjoy it. The rest of us come here like tourists at a zoo, to come see the animals.

[Kimpa-2868]

@Baalor-1885

Yup, and D2R is the pacifier to keep them happy. Its somewhat working. The 12 people playing consistently seem to enjoy it. The rest of us come here like tourists at a zoo, to come see the animals.

The only animals around here seems to be the apes that find their way back to a game they dislike tho?

[D22000-2196]

this is what happens to you when you see mechanics that make sense

first you are impressed by adding 1-2 points in skills… you are becoming so much stronger

then you are impressed by blue magic items that you randomly find

then you realize that there are synergies and that you may optimize your skills, you are beginning to understand builds

then you finish normal

then you are having a bit of trouble and you start finding more usefull items, gems, runes

you realize that there are sockets and runewords

there are items that give skill bonuses

you realize that you need to build you resistances

you start planning

you go for obedience, pride and other items

you start reading, you learn about fcr, crushing blow, prefixes and sufixes

you finish nightmare

you start getting problems with immunities so you are starting to consider alternative damage types, even better builds. Gear and runewords are now a necessity

you realize that you can farm certain areas

you realize the value of MF and that there are sets and class specific items

you realize that you can kill the DClone and get the best small charm

you farm a lot, you optimize for fire and lightning res, you are in search of skillers

you win the game in p1 and start farming in p8

you realize that there is a grail quest, outside the game

you start understanding the value of some rare drops

you realize that there is the world event

you start considering the possibility to go for lvl 99

you have tried a couple of sorcs, necros, amazons and pallys who have been good enough to finish the game but strive above lvl90 or so… you are starting to consider finer optimizations

you realize that you can play with friends

you realize that you can speedrun

you realize that you can go hardcore

you realize that you can play online (which is another game)

you realize that you can trade

you realize that you can pvp (which is another world entirely)

you are having a great time and maybe a lot of time has passed. All these mechanics work and are meaningful. You have read the formulas, understood them, and they make sense. You start comparing the eras of the game. Were the era before runewords better? Did enigma run the game? Is pride OP for its money ? Should the melee chars be stronger ? Are the casters OP in comparison ? Should all skills be viable in the endgame ? Are some new runewords OP and break the game ? How much of a problem are the bots ? Is the economy of the game rational ?

as the time has passed you realize that D2/D2R is the best game you have ever played (and you have played quite a few) and you do not want it to end up like other game. You would like to see it thrive and you would certainly pay for an expansion or new content

this is not exhaustive, written quickly

the point is that all of the above is a progressive learning experience that keeps in interested and focused… it is so very rare…

you have read a lot, you now know the history of the game and you comprehend that all of this can be easily ruined if the game diverges from its roots… you play D3, you play D4 and you understand that this is what they are missing… so you do not want D2/D2R to lose its unique character, its unique soul that makes it an absolute stand out among the graphically well polished current ARPG…

is this enough for you ?

[iGanc-1700]

@Meryver-11425

They often forget that the game is a product, that the company benefits from selling this product and that to do so it is necessary to adapt the product to the demands of current and potential customers.

Just because you’ve been sold the snake oil on new age gaming paying for absurd updates/features doesn’t make your point valid. This game is one of the best games ever made for a reason. It would be a sad day to see this become some sort of live service. I don’t care about what makes a company money, only about companies making great games. I’m not sold on things that burn out after a few weeks but cost money.

D2 obviously has its faults, but what it does have is one of the greatest progressions and itemizations I’ve ever had the joy of experiencing. Not to mention, outstanding character identity. Thank god we don’t have to pick genders, I’m so happy we get to actually play a “role” with each class. Yes, there are unique items and sets that just aren’t on par anymore, but that’s besides the point.

[Endugu-1671]

Change for the sake of change is stupid. All the changes to the barbarian except for Throw Mastery are stupid.

[KosmO-21959]

Go play LoD, game is perfect!

[Endugu-1671]

My barb is the highest non-bot on the LoD HC ladder.

[RamboRivera-1329]

@Guitars-1883

They are already beginning work on D5.

And Diablo 6, they are working in the sets.

[Guitars-1883]

No doubt. And people think they care about d2? No one crying d1 not getting the updates it deserves!

[Jhaerik-1897]

News at 11, older gamers like older styles of games. Who could have guessed that.

Also we were right. The game died when they started making dumb changes. 2.5 and beyond were awful.

[gaeandilth-1116]

They are not qualified to clean the bathrooms.