remember you self. you flame one who dont want ploot for @rod on twitter. but not one who is pro ploot… Hypocrisy at its finest…
And if you’re still on that train, its been derailed. Please find your nearest exit.
He said no outright, to multiple tweets. Sacrilege, and we will never give up the fight. Whenever its on the table, we will out-number like we do now.
If you can’t accept defeat, says plenty about your stance in the first place.
Amazing , Can’t wait. 
Personally, I do not think anyone should be flamed based on their opinion about optional personal loot irrespective of whether it is this forum or twitter when conveyed in a civil manner. If someone is being abusive, you can ignore/mute/report/block them. If they do something bad enough, they can be temporarily or permanently banned or have their post/tweet deleted by the moderators.
Stating that Rod cannot and has not categorically denied ploot in perpetuity does not entail that I support ploot.
Keep crusading though, I am sure Blizzard really cares about forum spammers.
Forum spammers? Rod CAN and has said “Its not being done.” As I said, if your reading comprehension is an issue, that’s something you can improve upon. Self-growth.
You shall continue to wait. Because shortly after that he shut it down, more than once.
But pipe dreams can be fun to travel down.
Don’t be silly. If Rod had said ploot was coming in the first patch you would not have stopped “arguing” your view.
Nor should you.
Fact is, Rod encouraged discussing the topic. Not that it matters if he had not. People discuss it because they consider it a relevant topic.
I would count this argument if it was actually true.
People have been playing the game for 20 years. There is nothing hostile about it anymore.
You just click a game and auto-pilot through it. That is part of the charm.
It will still be hostile enough for those who are new. Ploot or FFA loot doesnt make a difference.
Nice try. So because you disagree with me, now i am responsible for the spam-athon of anti-plooters with zero arguments?
I tried several times to consolidate the situation. Bring facts, quotes, i even created a map for all the arguments that were already listed and what we say against them. Noone even bothered to stick to the points. They just care to insult and belittle.
That is not on us. Not on me and certainly not on the rest of those who patiently try to argue with a pack of egoistic, anti-social, click-it-alls. “What goes around, comes around”, right?
We did not come around for the spam threads and returned it in kind. We did not come around for the constantt insults against everyone one the other side. We did not come around to ignore all facts and arguments and just push blatant lies made out of hot air.
We stuck to the threads that were there, we stuck to the arguments and we stayed considerably more civil than the wide majority of who calls themselves a “d2 ffa proctivist”.
Do not try to turn the blame around. You might have been civil. But your side of the argument has definitely not been. And you did nothing to prevent it.
If you are not responsible for how people behave on the forum, neither am i.
Yeah, let’s not “split the community”, let’s just send 40% of them off to d4. Very consistent.
Good old slippery slope argument.
Why dont you circle around with that guy who writes “shako” all the time.
Separate realms are not necessary for an accessibility function. You also do not need separate realms for color blind mode. Or disabled motion blur.
All of them change the
of the game. Still some prefer to play in these modes.
I understand your thinking. It is an opinion. And impression. A preference.
You know another word for it? I help you. And option that you chose to enjoy the game.
That is what we are asking for for us.
And we are suggesting something that does not impact you. It does not impact you when others play a multiplayer server instead of a solo server. It does not impact you when one of them gets 1/8 loot instead of 1.1/8 loot (while another gets 0.9/8 loot). All of these things are completely out of your scope and will never affect you.
The only thing that bothers you is that you do not want others to play the way that you prefer to play.
Hm? No… the “danger” I was talking about is the dynamic of FFA loot. Strange to say ploot or ffa doesnt make a difference in that regard.
Im not going to multiquote here, but the last segment of your post makes it clear again you do not understand my point. Because you keep saying game mode ploot will have no effect on FFA - D2-style - players. That was my entire point, to put it plainly again.
Also, you invoke logic fallacies wrong like so many forum fighters - I did not say ploot will lead to higher drop rates, I said of course there’s the high concern over that. Because it is entirely predictable. I find exchanges with you now lack vital nuance, so excuse me.
Yes, and some people enjoy that danger and others dont.
You can watch a horror movie with lights on or off. With the door behind your back or in your vision.
You can make a perfect argument to make a horror movie more dangerous. Still many people will pick one of the other choices.
Does it make the movie any less of a horror movie? No. It just allows them to make some fine-tuning.
Your entire point was that it has no effect on them? Good! What are we arguing about then?
It is also entirely predictable that people ask for higher droprates in FFA games. That has already happened. Is already happening and will happen again.
Does it mean that these queries get into the game? No!
That is why it is a slippery slope argument. You are tieing ploot with something that we all do not want but that is not connected to it.
Higher drop rates are connected to players who do not want to invest time.
Ploot is connected to players who are not able or willing to keep clicking on items the entire day.
The nuance is not lost on me. The nuance is your personal taste.
Which you can still play in under FFA loot.
You however lack seeing the nuance of how others want to play. Instead you tell them to “go to d4”. Did i tell you to not play d2r? I do not recall.
If this is sarcastic, then what a waste of energy - but if not, and it probably isn’t, I didn’t think I needed to spell out that my point was against what you said, which was it would have no effect on FFA players. …
It’d be weird if you told me to not play D2R because I wanted to play Diablo 2 with good graphics, network, and the shallow qol they’ve implemented.
The D4 point is really made in good faith because it is a good-looking Diablo game that seems to have addressed a lot of what was unpleasant about D3 – and it has the very modern mechanics you want so badly. D2, however, will be fundamentally altered if ploot is added even as a game-mode option – maybe that’ll be deemed acceptable, but it’ll change the feeling of the game as a whole for those who loved the pervasive sense of threat in multiplayer. Electing to participate in that danger is a deep difference from having no choice and just facing the tense world together, but that was my point two posts ago… this is going in circles.
“I lack the nuance of seeing how others want to play?” Lol… now you’re lacking the nuance to know how to use the word ‘nuance’!
Let’s not pose questions to each other here any more, this is not productive. Auf Wiedersehen. I would not be very surprised if later on game toggles for ploot are implemented, though I fundamentally disagree with the premise of deeply altering an oldschool epic, especially when there are current, good-looking options with the desired mechanics. But you and others seem to be totally set on having D2 play with the modern mechanics, so there is a very deep difference between us. I think separate servers are the best compromise, if Blizz deigns a modern iteration is even necessary for Diablo 2. I think that’s pretty much the bottom line here, as it’s been in the other debate threads.
These petitions are probably pretty pointless anyway - we should probably just fill out the official Blizzard surveys.
Then how would it affect them? Apart from giving you a bad belly that the kids on the other side of the playground are having a more colorful ball to play with?
We all know that we all will play D4 (or maybe not, who knows what the future will bring).
But we are here to play D2R. We bought D2R, we tested D2R, we played D2 before that, we liked that as well. And we had 20 years to have a long and good think about it.
And guess what me and ~40% of the player base decided in those 20 years. Ploot would actually be a good idea.
And it is very much in line with literally everything that has been posted about D2R. Modernization, QoL improvements, open for feedback.
Even on *this specific point Rob Fergusson has said multiple times that he welcomes the discussion.
What would be good as part of this discussion would be to find an actual downsides besides preferences and bellyaches to ploot.
So far there has not been any.
There have been a few decend points (e.g. griefing by leaving party and getting last hit), but they have already been adressed in a very clean and FFA-conform way.
If you have another point, feel free to raise it. But if you are just joining in to tell people to “go play D4” in a longwinded way, then maybe just dont. Not really helpful in the discussion.
You lack the ability to see nuances in the way other people are approaching the game.
Happy?
What is the fundamental alteration?
Some people who are currently playing solo games to avoid toxic ffa-grabbers (not to enjoy the horror and action, but simply because the other part of the game is not enjoyable) would now actually be able to play the game with other people.
You can make a game with friends and keep it on to avoid any heated discussions (or leave it off to have exactly those discussions).
You can chose to see whether ploot gives you more loot that ffa (because you can just “afk and get all the loot for free”), see that it is not the case after a few minutes and go back to ffa.
It is literally that simple.
If people “loved the pervasive sense of threat” then maybe they should follow that calling and keep playing ffa. If they do not follow it then maybe that calling was not that strong.
You are asking people to be forced between to modes (ffa and solo) that they do not enjoy. By saying that that new mode would actually “alter” the experience by allowing many players to play it you are basically giving the main point why it should be a mode to begin with. There is an audience and they do not enjoy the ffa - loot.
Yes and we have 20 years of that “facing the tense world together”. I am good for the moment.
I’d rather just do the gameplay every now and then.
You are like the hardcore player who tells everyone they should play hardcore because it is the “one and only” way to experience diablo. It clearly is not. For him it is, but not for others.
I agree and am happy to see that you are realistic enough to grant that.
Still we should make sure that that option is the most optimal fit to stand alongside with FFA loot. That is in everyones interest. And that is why we are here as well.
Every argument against ploot (apart from the understandable preference and belly ache) will be adressed and i even modified my suggestion several times to account for these valid arguments (some of which i actually had to bring myself, because anti-plooters are not very creative at breaking a loot allocation system).
Show me one comment where someone said “ploot or refund”. Then we can talk about being “totally set on” something.
It is a compromise but i do not think it is a good one. For other changes (if those would ever happen) surely. But ploot has minimal gameplay impact (apart from preference and belly aches). No economical difference, no balance difference, just a bit better spread of the wealth (in ~1% of the loot that is being farmed).
Yeah, but honestly, i think it will simply be a slow moving ship.
I have seen in in dota 2 before. It was a game full of purists. And i frankly was one of them. Still it moved at a slow enough pace that years later noone complained about orca-tide anymore.
I took my lessons from that. If you shut out the “core” community early on by simply locking down, you are also giving up control over the endproduct. Stay productive, accept things that bring common benefit and keep the ship on course.
When we ask for ploot, we do not ask for it today (even though we would prefer it and i have made some provocative posts on it), but we argue for the concept to be on the map at some point.
That is strategic. Categorically saying no is not strategic. It is a tactic that is doomed for defeat.
The deep difference is mostly perception. We do not want to have increased drop rates as you claim. We want the main diablo 2 experience (which we do not need ffa loot for). We do not want to impact the ffa experience negatively.
If you have a graspable concern, then we will try to adress it. But what you said about the dark horror experience is simply very subjective. I also think it is just a mindset that needs to adjust at a slow pace.
You will still be in the game. If you find new people, you can tell them about the ffa system in all its glory and convince them to make that concious choice. You can actually reach all those people who before never set a foot into a ffa game, because they are now playing ploot.
And you (not you specifically) can also drop the elitist hat and start realizing that the game can be played without 1 hero to carry 7.
Because that is what ploot will result in (in my strong believe). Story-play games with ploot and lenient level restriction.
Baal/CS/Cow runs with strict level restrictions.
And players who do not participate will simply not be accepted in the next match.
I am not a fan of petitions as well. I didnt even take part in 2 of the 2 we quoted.
Still they give at least an indication on where the hearts stand.
What i really would have appreciated would have been some better communication with the community on this subject. Sure, Rob Fergusson posted some tweets the other day, but even the anti-plooters must admit that they were not coherent (even if you think they say that “ploot will not come”).
They have community managers, a development blog and a bnet launcher to communicate things like that. And it is clearly a burning topic for many.
Instead of putting the cards on the table, they went silent (which is alright and we are used to, maybe because they want to encourage the discussion), but then just posting these half-… tweets did not really help to clear up the situation.
If there had been a discussion then we would like to hear why they decided and whether or not it is on the roadmap. That would give clarity and direction to the current chaos of threads. But at least the anti-ploot spammers have calmed a bit, so maybe it actually was the right move.
Just few words about p-loot some of you people want.
It is because you only know a old d2 full of bots were they taking everything away in front of you
This will not be there anymore if the dev’s can handle it now. This p-loot is not necessary because you will play with normal people, get skill, keep your eyes open.
Dont stay in the corner and pretend to get something, this is just FALSE. (If this is the intention)
Which is highly unlikely.
Also the whole “let’s go hug the enemy before it dies” is also incredibly silly gameplay design.
Maybe drops could be randomly thrown around the nearby area when an enemy died. But that would just benefit anyone with teleport of course.
Blizzard’s biggest MMO titles World of Warcraft retail & classic currently have the biggest problem with bots than any other MMO (especially classic). It’s also a subscription based game and it’s on the same Battle.net as D2R. Why would you think that Blizzard has now fixed bots for D2R? How could you possibly believe this lol.
not too old since this did already begin…
ain’t anything to do with trying to add poor loot option like ploot.
it impacts everyone’s trading and also it’s still not Qol change so if u prefer games with ploot there’s lots of those pick freely but D2R ain’t on that list
u cannot compare wow and diablo! wow is pay to win thats why it’s heavily botted and everyone that used to play wow knows this.
It’s been a long time since I played wow but I thought the best Armor and weapons had to be earned, like the pvp sets from arena or the decent drops from raid bosses etc.
Do people get carried for those items now?
I mean even in 2007 there has had been people selling arena ratings up to 2K, wasnt officially supported but with the introduction of the WoW Badge you could say that the game pretty much became pay 2 win.
Buy a wow badge, get gold, pay gold for any achievement or item you wish.
So yes people do get carried and it basicly threw out all normal players because no matter where you go, the boosting scene now is louder and bigger than chinese goldsellers have ever been.
Pretty bad trade of if you ask me.
But hey, theyve been more worried in WoW Classic about skeletons from dead players because there has been written messages on the ground wich atleast was funny, so they removed that and they even removed /spit emote to target players because of their boostyboys that pay them so well and have been spit on for purchasing this.