No.
Just buff base weapon damage of all weapons by 30 to 50 % and increase %ed on all weapons by ~200-250%ed including rare and magic. This would help melee at ladder start and balance other options to the level of grief while grief is nearly unaffected
But mostly we need p8 mode on singlrplayer bnet games.
Also those poor shifter souls could use tele in form.
These 2 changes are game changers for the meta and d2r itself
This. Grief is not the issue, its other stuff not being too good with low dmg output from melee class compared to casters who can do huge dmg with just gaining levels.
No. Online needs more options to play together and not more options to play alone. Play offline if you want p8.
Yes, shifter should be able to cast while in form, warcries/tele.
Grief in math:
Grief gives a 370 damage bonus on an average roll.
A berserker axe has 47.5 average damage.
To compete with Grief, a runeword that doesn’t give indestructible in a normal non-ethereal berserker axe runeword needs +780% enhanced damage.
Last Wish isn’t even close with it’s 600% enhanced damage and no attack speed.
And two socket ethereal self repair rares only reach 480% enhanced damage with two 40% ed jewels, or 380 with Fools mod.
That’s 413 average damage for the ethereal berserker axe – still less than Grief’s average damage on a +370 damage medium roll.
And a perfect grief beats whatever jewels you insert in a 10 000$ rare, because phaseblades exist alongside Grief.
I love my literally godly rares – but Grief is better than my near perfect fools rares.
Two socket fools eth self repair has an even lower average damage, but ‘always’ hits.
Their strength, regardless, is the ability to place in Lo or Ber runes for deadly strike or crushing blow.
Runewords already exist to make better runewords than perfect two socket self repairing rares;
Death, Last Wish and Breath of the Dying are all just variants of what a perfect rare could have become.
…
The game is in a frustrating place:
Melee characters can mostly all solo the ubers with crushing blow, while most casters can’t scratch them…
…while melee can’t one hit kill monsters with single target melee range attacks that spellcasters can one-shot with area of effect spells…
…and most spellcasters can’t even do that. Just the sorceress and trapsin, unless we count skill level 1 Corpse Explosion as a build/strategy.
Unless you’re a paladin with Zeal and Grief, one hit killing everything with a 4 frame attack speed, only set back by bugs relating to attacks trying to hit monsters out of range and desynch issues.
Barbarians are close with their Berserk capped at 9 frames, which don’t rely on Grief, and are probably even closer with dual grief whirlwind.
Grief, again.
Melee characters have to be benchmarked against a paladin using zeal with a Grief phase blade – one hit killing every non-boss at 4 frames per attack.
…unless they want to be benchmarked against the sorceress or hammerdin, one hit killing multiple monsters with ranged area of effect spells.
I’m playing a melee non-kick non-trap assassin right now.
After 7 tokens of absolution – my best setup, thus far, after ditching every elemental claw setup – is a Grief phaseblade with Chaos + godly rare claw on switch for whirlwind through fodder.
Her best skills are basic attack with Grief (with Phoenix shield and Fortitude armor), and level 1 whirlwind from Oskills.
Ive already analyzed base weapon damage increase. Elite Bases would need to increase by roughly 2.8x so that phase blades base can be near 100. Otherwise, there will still remain a large discrepancy in phase blade grief vs non-grief. Polearms would need an even larger increase to make them worth using, comparatively.
I would be fine with either solution, whether changing grief flat damage to ED and buffing skills, etc ED, or increasing elite base weapon damage.
Without bringing the damage of phase blades to roughly 100 ( 2.8x increase) ( and subsequently all other weapon base damage as well), there still remains a big balance discrepancy compared to other rune word choices: The closer to 100 base damage on phase blade, the less the discrepancy compared to enhanced damage options. For instance;
If phase blade was increased by 1.5x resulting in 47-53 dmg,
Grief PB @ +400 dmg = 447 - 453 ( 450 average )
While Last wish @ 385ed = 228 - 257 ( 243 average )
If phase blade was increased by 2x to 62-70 dmg
Grief PB @ + 400 dmg = 462 - 470 ( 466 average )
While Last wish @ 385ed = 301 - 340 ( 321 average )
If phase blad ewas increaed by ~2.5 to 78-88
Grief PB @ +400 dmg = 478 - 488 ( 483 average )
While Last Wish @ 385ed = 378 - 427 ( 403 average)
Lets look at high-level rune words fashioned in a damage 87-98 (2.8x original) base phase blade (Grief PB with original base damage for comparison ( +400 = 431-435 )
Grief +400 = 487-498 ( 492 average ) + Elemental + -res + DS ( Lo )
Beast - Cannot be made from swords
Doom - Cannot be made from swords
Cresent moon *220 = 278-314 ( 295 average ) + OW + -res ( None ( Um ) )
Death *385 = 422-475 ( 448 average ) + DS + OW ( Vex Gul )
Famine - Cannot be made from swords
Kingslayer *270= 322-363 ( 342 average ) + CB + OW ( Gul )
Last Wish *375 = 413-466 ( 440 average ) + Might + CB ( Jah Jah Jah Ber Sur )
Oath *340 = 383-431 ( 407 average ) ( None ( Mal ) )
Breath of the Dying *400 = 435-490 (462 average ) ( Zod Vex )
Lets compare with damage 67-199 (2.8x original) base Beserker Axe
Grief +400 = 467-599 ( 533 average ) + Elemental + -res + DS ( Lo )
Beast *270 = 248-736 ( 492 average ) + Fanaticism + CB + OW ( Ber )
Doom *370 = 315-935 ( 625 average ) + Holy Freeze + CB + DS ( Ohm Lo Cham )
Cresent moon *220 = 215-637 ( 426 average ) + OW + -res ( None ( Um ) )
Death (Eth) *385 = 487-1448 ( 968 average ) + DS + OW ( Vex Gul )
Famine *370 = 315-935 ( 625 average ) + Elemental ( Ohm Jah )
Kingslayer *270= 248-736 ( 492 average ) + CB + OW ( Gul )
Last Wish *375 = 318-945 ( 632 average ) + Might + CB ( Jah Jah Jah Ber Sur )
Oath (Eth) *340 = 443-1313 ( 878 average ) ( None ( Mal ) )
Breath of the Dying (Eth) *400 = 503-1493 (998 average ) ( Zod Vex )
Lets compare with damage 165-263 (2.8x original) Champion Axe ( 2 Hand )
Grief +400 = 565-663 ( 614 average ) + Elemental + -res + DS ( Lo )
Beast *270 = 610-973 ( 798 average ) + Fanaticism + CB + OW ( Ber )
Doom *370 = 775-1236 ( 1005 average ) + Holy Freeze + CB + DS ( Ohm Lo Cham )
Cresent moon *220 = 528-842 ( 685 average ) + OW + -res ( None ( Um ) )
Death (Eth) *385 = 1200-1913 ( 1557 average ) + DS + OW ( Vex Gul )
Famine *370 = 775-1236 ( 1005 average ) + Elemental ( Ohm Jah )
Kingslayer *270= 610-973 ( 798 average ) + CB + OW ( Gul )
Last Wish *375 = 784-1249 ( 1017 average ) + Might + CB ( Jah Jah Jah Ber Sur )
Oath (Eth) *340 = 1089-1736 ( 1413 average ) ( None ( Mal ) )
Breath of the Dying (Eth) *400 = 1238-1973 (1605 average ) ( Zod Vex )
In conclusion, something needs to change so that Grief balances with other ( often more expensive ) options.
Why would you focus on Phaseblades so much? People only use phaseblades for grief because they don’t have durability. The base speed is a bonus. Increasing the weapon base damage would work for all other bases just fine, especially if you increase the %ed that can roll. If you would want to improve phaseblades you’d need to add flat damage to all base weapons, which would profit pbs more than any other base.
Guess you fully ignored the part where I added an increase of %ed to uniques,rares,magic and RW weapons. let them roll 200-250%ed higher with the base weapon damage increase and you have alternatives to grief without making grief useless and without having stronger “legacy” items than newly created ones.
I focus on phase blades because they have the most discrepancy with damage when comparing flat damage vs enhanced damage.
Weapons such as last wish and botd, that are made in single handed swords, will still be overshadowed by grief because of the flat damage
Cryptic and Conquest sword would need to be updated to roll 6 sockets
I am less concerned with how balance occurs; Balance just needs to occur. It is very boring being limited to primarily using Grief because its damage outperforms every other melee weapon.
just use a 1 hand axe. Phase blades are fast weapons. That’s why they have lower raw damage.
When 2handers for ww gets fixed, everything will be good. Until then I’m sticking with D2 LoD.
Nerfing Grief will just result in the next best, will you then ask for it to be nerfed?
If your so concerned it’s OP why not straight out ask for it’s removal?..
…Yeah that’s what I thought!
Id be fine with grief being completely removed
What you dont seem to grasp is that I want to make P8 games and play with my family. 2-3 people max so the challenge is waaaaay more fun and dont have to deal with randoms.
Your opinion is short sighted bc you dont go out dancing to have random strangers force themselves on you, and its your only option to dance. Like how does that feel good/right/fun? Some leave suddenly others leave join, leave join… leave… like how can I get ant quality dancing done if i cant pick my partners and the dance/skill level required? We’re all told to do funky chicken when flamingo is the waaaaay to goooo. Like really think about your words. I can have those randos join my game, even may ask for it on some toons that cant handle p8 yet. More fun to make a new duo friend online when you both need eachother for survival. I am certain if you use your brain you will see past the complete wrongness of your previous statement.
When cars came out farmers called them devil machines that would take our jobs. This is every new tech and change to the systems of old. Dont be afraid, see the good that will come. The bad is already here. Chinese farmers and websites they back already use p8 multibox farming. Damage done. Lets get the positives now, to all, equally
I really don’t care about your sob story.
/p8 command is bad for multiplayer purposes.
You are just selfish and your analogies are bad.
So go and buy another 7 copies and you have your p8 whenever you want.
How is it not you who is selfish? You’ll never see how selfish you really are, denial all over your responses
I’m not the one crying all over the forums for p8, an antisocial command to simulate players in a MULTIPLAYER game.
Listen you ape, let me spell it out to you bc so completely dense you cant possibly understand how selfish you are:
I want game as it stands now +option to multiplay at higher difficulty
You want no extra options to play multiplayer. So in otherwords only YOU are happy, not a HUGE demographic.
So i again want OPTIONS FOR ALL. You wany OPTION FOR YOU. Definition of selfish.
When did i omce say i wanted P8 only for solo? That would be cool side benefit which only chinese bots or people with setups who dont want normies cutting in on their market (probably your real goal, nobody is this dense).
You just got 8 accounts and a multibox setup and dont want any threats to your trade empire. Problem is your short sightedness. What happened over the last 1-2 years of this game to the majority of the player base? THEY LEFT. Which you probably love. But who is gunna buy your cyber empire’s goods if you dobt think big picture? A handful of players, maybe.
So stop being selfish and projecting (the official psychological reasoning behind you calling me that is just how flippin selfish YOU are)
be careful what you ask for, or they will make another charm that lets you use any weapon in the game with a giref stats imbedded
I agree with you melee builds should be nerfed
let’s take away their most powerful weapons
Now try again in English.
No /p8 for online. Stop being selfish and asking for it all over the forum like a entitled little toddler