Zovaals story had so much potential

The man had plans. He was relatable. The possibility of him being right and the covenants being wrong was on the table.

And it all boils down to him just wanting to create a reality where people serve him.

Do you see how the story could have went?

I’ve never liked the covenants and their idea of the after life. I didn’t like the fact that you don’t go where you belong when you die. I feel like the covenants have screwed every faith that exists in the WoW universe by robbing them of their faithful in the end. I felt like Zovaal actually had purpose. But it was just to make people serve?

Not my story, im just reading it, but if I were writing it, I would have kept people suspended between sides. And if I were to make a it known that Zovaal was definitely the bad guy, the motive wouldn’t have been just to make people serve.

I feel like the story plot could have gone great but instead, kill controlling bad guy now.

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I’m fairly certain Zovaal’s story was doomed when they tried to keep up some emblem of a façade that he was trying to create a better world, all while his main hobby is snatching innocent people to torturously dominate them and/or break them down into raw materials after stealing them from the other afterlives. Which ARE flawed, but they’re not that.

Zovaal revealing that he wanted to control everything didn’t come off as a disappointment to me, because it’s pretty much exactly what it says on the tin. I’d make less sense if he WAS trying to create a better afterlife.

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Zo… who again? I thought we were only supposed to care about Sylvanas

They probably thought nobody would notice that the main villain has no backstory at all, and his motives are still unclear this far into the expansion

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But in your opinion, what would have made the better story?

The problem is, reality is truly out of order like Zovaal stated.

I just feel the story would have went a lot better if he would have actually been trying to create a free reality instead of just being power hungry. He could have kept the bad guy methods but still been working towards a righteous goal like a vigilante.

Notice, all vigilantes are very likable. This just makes Zovaal shallow and unlikable.

Simple, Zovaal needed to be written more sympathetically. We’ve had tons of expacs of giant evil man in spikes, and Zovaal did not need to be another one. Have him hoard souls, but don’t make him break them down. You still keep the anima drought intact, but the Jailer appears more benevolent than evil. Then overtime, show that Zovaal’s quest to create a better Shadowlands has devolved his psyche and made him just as bad - probably a LOT worse - than the modern Shadowlands, which in turn have begun to adapt and change to address and fix their flaws. The paradise that Zovaal wanted to create out of the Maw turns out to be just a giant prison, but he refuses to accept this, and that’s why he must go down.

Zovaal remains a sympathetic villain, but a villain nonetheless. It’s not perfect, but it would have had more nuance than this.

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Lol. For me, Sylvanas story is over now. She should be executed for crimes against humanity.

The regaining of the soul changes nothing and it even abandons the idea that a soul matters “if that was her regaining her soul”. If she would have been emotionless up until the regaining of the soul, yea, I could see it. But she felt when Varian died, she felt when Vol’ Jin died. She felt when she was trying to convince Anduin to follow along. So, the defense of temporary insanity is off the table. She was clearly herself just soulless which in turn proves that a soul doesn’t matter.

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Aaron Ehasz, the lead writer for Avatar the Last Airbender, described this as a “false god” of good character writing that was more often misused.

Relatable characters suck.

I want classical hero and villains. I didn’t expect Zovaal to be anything less than what he revealed himself to be. And he looks cooler now too.

If that’s the case, why go on this whole holier than thou facade and still be correct just to abandon your direction by just wanting to rule the universe “you catch more flies with honey”? He wasn’t wrong, something is incorrect about how the shadowlands is being ran / even the existence of the shadowlands is harmful to natural events. That’s relatable, I feel that the shadowlands in its previous and current state is a bad. He thought you this whole plot to fix it and just said “nah, I want to be served”. That’s just bad writing.

Or maybe he’s actually wrong. Most villains are, and pursue their goals because they’re just selfish, and are not above duplicity to obtain it.

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How did you even know he was a villain up until the cinematic with him saying “I just want people to serve me”? His motive could have been to rule and things be normal. Wanting to rule doesn’t make someone a villain. Wanting only to be served makes him a villain.

His methods.

I don’t care if you want to do good. If you’re doing evil things to achieve it, you’re a villain.

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There’s a word for that, vigilante. Vigilante does not = villain

Doing evil things for good reason does not a vigilante make.

I’m not talking about Batman assaulting people, but literally dragging people to hell and using them to power your forces, magics, whatever.

Batman circumvents the law, that makes him morally gray. There’s nothing ‘gray’ about the Jailer. He’s evil, and it’s been obvious this whole time.

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Good and evil are moral concepts based on personal view.

Is it good or bad to shoot someone that’s about to shoot someone else?

What if the shooter is shooting the person because they are about to shoot another person?

Etc….

Morality and ethics is very complex in real life, but that’s real life.

This is as fictional story. These characters are avatars representing virtues pitted up against things to show the value of them. The Jailer isn’t a real person, he’s a construct. He’s playing the part of a villain in this story because that’s what stories are-- ways to help us teach, learn, and understand complex moral questions that we then have to consider in real life.

The act of shooting someone can be good if it’s to protect someone, or bad if it’s to harm them for no greater reason than inflicting pain.

There is no silver lining, there is no ‘greater good’ to pulling souls into hell to suffer.

You cannot be “morally grey” when what you’re doing is dragging souls from across the entire universe into hell and turning them into dust to forge weapons with. At that point it doesn’t matter if you say you had a reason for it, you are doing an incredibly evil, wicked act, and there is no justification for it.

This goes for Sylvanas as well as the Jailer.

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I think I’m failing to get my point across.

Zovaal is capturing souls.
VS
Covenants are capturing souls.

Neither of these is where a soul is meant to go. Both are bad.

Why would we side with the covenants over Zovaal?

All I’m saying is, they missed a heck of an opportunity with this one. Instead of just being straight up bad, he could have actually been trying to do good in his eyes.

Goes back to morality. Good is only good if the person doing the thing thinks it’s good. Bad is only bad if the person doing the thing thinks it’s bad.

Because the souls in those realms benefit from being there.

This would be faster if you just come out and say you think Bastian is evil.

They have delegated that to Sylvanas.

Here’s the thing, no one person gets to say what’s good or bad. The only souls you’ve seen being drug to hell and bad stuff happen to them are the ones who committed questionable acts.

I personally think they are all evil. Not just bastion. At the least, the people of bastion are ignorant. At the very least.

I mean… a lot of people hate Bastion for different reasons.

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