I don’t think you understand how to use that against people correctly.
I see you can out of arguments and just resorted to that trite ole garbo. Something tells me you hang out with people who think Flying is instant teleport god mode. (I.E the flatearthers of Classic WoW, imo ) That might explain your bad takes.
To use one on your quotes against you in a correct manner, considering you’re literally doing what you’ve claimed i was doing earlier (but i guess you’re the “rules for thee, not for me” sort) …
It’s like i’m seeing Mike Tyson missing his punches at Rocky, only to punch himself somehow and complain about being punched by him. Quite embarrassing honestly.
…So why you still act like their “attacking” you then?
Increasing the quality of the expansions by giving another tool of traversal that opened ideas of game design and exploration, that is literally optional to use for the most part is considered ruining?
You know Throm, have you ever stop to think why Blizzard doesn’t listen to you? Or anybody else who is an armchair director, thinking they know better for the game then the devs?..
Also good job cutting a quote out of context to make it seem like i’ve believed in something like that when i didn’t. Let’s look again.
You’re not at that point yet, but you’re like running head first into it on a mile long line.
Your posts are nothing but being a contrarian for the sake of it. You’re projecting so much, it’s not even funny of how much your self awareness is in the negatives at this point. And i’m honestly glad Blizzard doesn’t listen to you, because given how you handle yourself, you can only ruin the game with your ideas.
Flying has objectively increased the quality of the game since TBC by allowing more better design ideas to flourish and exploration. You haven’t even defined exploration and just repeated it like a buzzword. What is exploration even is? Just looking at the every inch of the map to find 256 different variants of pretty poorly animated 3D flowers and going “WoW pretty grapix dude!”?
Guess what? Flying helps you accomplishes that better.
And also guess what? Dragon-riding was inspired off of flying.
And also guess what? Flying… saved your previous little WoW from being mediocre, it made it stand out. Because the actual devs knew the same WoW Vanilla gameplay isn’t going to keep them invested 24/7. They have to bring in fresh stuff.
You wasted your own time trying to convince the world that flying ruined WoW when it only helped for not just Blizzard but the players. Because what you’re saying now is that WoW wasn’t good atfer Vanilla because they added in a feature you dislike. (Which makes me wonder why you’re playing Classic WoW if that’s your attitude then but hey. you’re a “rules for thee, not for me” guy… well, saying guy implies you have any maturity.).
So GG Mojo Dojo. You’ve blew up your own volcano lair.
Ahh yes, it’s so the best, that they have to cut it short…
So is going to an actual lake, lying underneath the tree and taking a nap. But we both know that Fun and Immersion are subjective things.
No, its objectively worsened the game because flying is antithetical to the MMORPG genre where going through the world and interacting with it at all times and other players that are doing the same is intrinsic to the genre and flying does the exact opposite. But ofc I’m talking to someone who is not capable of critical thinking at this level and is equally incapable of re-examining their own views.
Also this is not what we’re talking about but you refuse to stay on subject
…Second time you’ve said this and yet to actually follow up on it…
…Not that it’s the only thing you said something you’re going to do something, but didn’t follow it up on…
And you’re still interacting the world (by whatever definition you’re going by), while flying. Heck, You’re still interacting in the world by just merely existing because this is an MMO where players play in a server that holds thousands of people. Flying is pretty much just an extension of that.
Says the person who said their not going to waste their time and proceed to waste their time by their own admission anyways. Nice job projecting your own flaws mate.
Are you seriously complaining that i didn’t agree with you?
I’ve only used flying as a loose reference to my overall point of hoping you’re not as silly as one particular Anti-flyer that i’ve quoted and laughed at. But i guess that was a fool’s errand to hope you would be smarter then them after all. You were the one who diverged into that topic of flying by actually taking that quote out of context. And you can say “No u” all you want, or pretend your blameless, but that would only prove my point… And here’s proof of that considering you actually did sidetrack us…
So by your own design, you’ve made it about flying.
You’ve topic-switched whether you want to admit to or not.
And as for the subject, i don’t know what else needs to be said that hasn’t been said in the 10+ comments we share with each other other then have it be repeated in summary.
I just think it’s a little silly to make a big threat publicly to quit the entire game over a temporary event not being as good you think it is. Especially since you didn’t even follow that up or aren’t planing to.
I mean you seem way too invested to quit given your 10+ comments trying to defend your position, plus your attitude that you think you’re never wrong and pretty much demonizing anybody who disagrees with you (which is also why your takes are bad here). Though i am sorry for your short term memory loss that made you forget what we were talking about previously before you sidetracked the entire conversation.
Flying over the world is literally avoiding the world. Looking at your dog as you go around it but not touching your dog or feeding him is not considered interacting with your dog, its considered ignoring them. And then there’s the fact that flying irrefutably reduces player interaction.
No I’m making the observation that you aren’t capable of changing your mind about anything because you’re too deeply ingrained in defending them that you CAN’T be convinced that you’re wrong about anything.
That’s pretty funny coming from someone who can’t understand that flying is antithetical to the MMORPG genre.
When you decide to address my original topic and stop derailing my thread I’ll be happy to discuss it with you. But you’re probably not going to do that
You’re still in the world. By whatever definition of “World” you’re going by at this point.
False comparison. Being in the game world is not the same as ignoring your pet, because in the game world, you’re still having an effect on the world and people, even if all you did is litteraly nothing. And therefore interacting with the game world.
If you want to deny realliy and say “U NOT INTERACTING …” Since you bought up a (poor) comparison, i’l show you my better comparison to what i’m talking about.
Have you heard of the MMO game called “real life”? Were all playing it, even if we didn’t know about it. It’s such a popular mmo that literally everybody on the entire planet is playing it right now. Sarcasm aside, right now, you’re effecting the world outside of you right now, even if all you did is nothing. By merely existing, you’re interacting with the world outside of there indirectly. Paying your taxes, living in a house, getting phonecalls from people you’ve never heard of, using everyday objects that you’ve bought, buying items, being a target for ads on the internet…
… Making silly threads like this that makes some of the sane people reading along your thread, question humanity. /exaggeration.
When you go around and say “Flying is avoiding the world”, that practically means you don’t know what you’re talking about and i question how much you really know about the MMO genre when you this basic thing wrong.
That’s on the player not interacting. Not the feature. Even if everybody is grounded, that suddenly doesn’t mean everybody interacts. That’s a common myth that i think you should stop holding on to at this point considering both games have their players interacting with each other whether you want to believe it or not.
Errrrrrr… Wrong. What a shocker. Somebody says or implies they know me, don’t actually know or even did the basic research.
The only reason why you subjectively think that, is because i’ve disagreed with you and called your take bad. Maybe you should deal with the fact that there’s more people against you then with you.
Projection, you got projection, you have quite a selection.
If it’s antithetical, why so many game companies, including 2 other popular MMO’s like FF14 and GW2 has flying then?
It’s almost like what you’ve said here is full of it and you don’t know anything about MMO’s.
I mean there’s even other MMO’s that i’ve litteraly just googled that has flying. If it’s so antithetical to the genre, then why so many of them put them in?
Let’s go down the MMO’s i’ve gathered that has flying, shall we?
/Super Mario 64 Slide Theme Song plays
DC universe online.
Flyff
Riders of Icarus
Tera
Blade & Soul
City of Heroes
9Dragons
Age of Wushu
Aion
ArcheAge
Ascent: Infinite Realm
Black Desert Online
Bless Online & Bless Unleashed
Citadel: Forged with Fire
Final Fantasy XIV (Already mentioned, but worthy of putting on the list)
Guild Wars 2 (Already mentioned, but worthy of putting on the list)
Eve Online
MapleStory
Peria Chronicles
Revelation Online
Skyforge
Star Citizen
Warframe
Worlds Adrift
Ashes of Creation (Oh look, an upcoming game with flying, i thought flying was antithetical to the MMORPG genre, and yet this upcoming big MMO has this… Hmm. )
And of coarse…
World of Warcraft: The burning crusade
World of Warcraft: The Wrath of Lich King
World of Warcraft: Cataclysm
World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria
World of Warcraft: Warlords of Draenor
World of Warcraft: Legion
World of Warcraft: Battle for Azeroth
World of Warcraft: Shadowlands
And i think there’s another upcoming expansion that has flying in it too… as a main feature even… and it has flying giant fire breathing dragons. Taking flight. Flight means Flying. Even has flight in the title. ♫ I wonder what that is… ♫
Except i did
I think at this point, you’re just angry at me to a point where you’re just cherry picking here and lying. Maybe if you stop acting like a petulant child, and cherry pick or ignore the parts to fit your agenda essentially, a civil debate can happen.
Not any in the 5 minutes i was there on the server Atiesh. And i was just casually dumbbutting around trying to find Thrall as a fresh DK. (The Warchief location is majorly different then the king’s location in SW between the two games) I was ripe for the picking, but their wasn’t any gardeners (zombies) to pick me.
So either i picked a slow day, got lucky, something broke, guards took care of it, or it ended before i got there.
They did for about one whole day. Whereas in the original Wrath, zombies were invading SW and Org for four days.
Gee what could I be referring to? Maybe the actual pixels that were assembled into the terrain where all the trees, mountains, rivers, caves etc exist. And not the empty space above it where you can’t quest or kill NPCs in. Yeah. That world. Aka, the world and not the sky.
When you are in the sky you are not interacting with anything, when you are flying over hordes of NPCs and mountains and rivers you are literally AVOIDING having to deal with them so you can go to your goal destination on the OTHER side of them. I do not know how I can possibly dumb this down any further for you.
Clearly logic does not exist in your world or you wouldn’t have made this statement. How tf does this make sense to anyone with a brain?
How did you think this was an intelligent comparison? Every WoW equivalent (buying your flying mounts, buying flying skills, buying gear etc) require you to BE ON THE GROUND and interact with other players… those things… here I’ll give you a second to comprehend what I’m about to say… THOSE THINGS REQUIRE YOU TO STOP FLYING TO DO THEM. Flying is nothing but you getting from point A to point B as quickly as possible with as little world and player interaction as possible (those things would slow down your trip) so you can STOP FLYING and do the things you wanted to do. Flying is in no possible logical way interacting with the world of World of Warcraft. It is ignoring it. You can SEE it from your flying mount, sure, but looking at something is not interacting with it… PLANNING to interact with it once you stop avoiding it via your ground mount does not somehow equate that the flying part is therefore interacting with it, INTERACTING WITH IT IN ORDER to get your flying mount so you can avoid interacting with it does not make flying interacting with the world.
And fyi working so you can pay your taxes is not “merely existing.” A more accurate comparison within your line of thinking would be me working for a few years so I could buy a cottage out in the woods and become completely self sufficient so I could become a hermit and never interact with another human being for the rest of my life. That is a good analogy for flying, albeit the hermit part is for the few minutes a day you’re flying over the world and not interacting with it.
And as for your “Hurr other MMOs make stupid mistakes like adding flying into it, that must mean that it’s a good idea.” No it means that a few big MMOs saw WoW doing it, accepted the fact that WoW was the most popular MMO in existence at the time, and figured (incorrectly) that flying was part of the formula for success. And then newer MMOs saw all the MMOs that blindly copied WoW and decided to do the same.
Ad populum is not somehow a logical reason for flying mounts not being antithetical to the MMORPG genre
And even if you could argue that having flying mounts is what attracts a few players to play certain MMOs, it doesn’t change the fact that it is bad for the long term health of the game and player retention and even those who, one of the primary reasons they joined a game, was flying mounts, it still would contribute to them losing interest eventually. Turning the overworld into an obstacle to be gotten through as quickly as possible and avoided whenever possible is NOT how you make an engaging videogame.
I’m having a lot of fun in Classic right now. I was only able to do a tiny bit of the zombie invasion in PTR, so I am really hoping they figure out whatever bug it is and fix it.
Sorry guys but I really wouldn’t get your hopes up. I’m 99% sure they have zero intention of bringing it back at all anymore. Especially since the Wrath gates open up on the 26th and this week would have been the last time slot that would have made any sense for them to continue the zombie event in.
Seems to me that they’re more than happy to just brush it under the rug and pretend that it ended early again intentionally. Though I’m not convinced it wasn’t intentional.
Buddy, there’s actual pixels everywhere regardless of where you go.
The sky is part of the world. I know, mindblowing isn’t it? Infact, even Cataclysm used the sky every so and then for it’s world.
I see you lack the mental capacity to understand my basic concepts i’m giving to you just to go with your own erroneous subjective belief.
That you don’t know what interacting actually is?
In your world, you clearly think anybody who disagrees with you is not being logical. Well i’m sorry, but i live in reality. You might want to come visit it sometime.
Thromonbluar, have you never done or had any of those things happened to you? similar stuff happens to you in WoW even if you’re flying. Just because you subjectively believe it doesn’t happen, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.
And? Those things require you to be off your ground mount or not even move at all, or not on the flight master, and yet you don’t complain about that. If you have no problem with being on the ground, then you have no problem with being in the air. Picking only one is hypocritical.
So are Flight Masters, Ground mounts and even simple running.
Plus, all this argument really stems from is implying that not “interacting” (by however you mean it, it’s nebulous at this point) with the world or Players will lead a decrease in quality., when somebody right now can just play WoW classic, and play efficiency and only give like 10 words in total to people over their coarse of playing. And that’s completely fine, because this isn’t 2004 anymore.
Sounds like to me you have problems with introducing more methods of travel in a video game and people playing differently then you in an MMO. Which begs the question, why are you playing if you’re that offended by it then?..
Not my fault that you fail logic here and try to understand the basic concept i’ve given you.
Also, you’ve never elaborate on what interacting means. You’re just using it as a buzzphrase without understanding it at this point. And considering you made it a big part of your argument, leaving that undefine just makes your “interaction” arguments completely worthless for you to try to use.
You are living in the states (or whatever country) and that place requires taxes from you in order to not go to jail. Therefore you’re interacting the world by just merely existing.
Maybe you should adopt my and everybody else’s line of thinking considering it’s clearly superior to yours.
I don’t see how doing all that is a negative, unless you’re a social butterfly (though i’ve heavy doubts with that with you), and it’s not exactly a fair comparison to flying, because what you’re essentially doing is trashing somebody’s decision on how their going to spend their life given how you describe it, (or play their game), and imply that it’s a bad thing to living alone and being alone (or playing solo even).
You have a problem with WoW Classic and how it’s designed where it keeps in mind of solo players being able to play in tandem with group players. If that offends you that somebody decides to play differently from you, again, why you’re here then?
And i’m sure you think earth is flat too.
It’s not a mistake. If it is, people wouldn’t love it. But it’s clearly not.
Yes, they did it because players love it or want it. And some of them even expanded upon it like GW2. Even if you want to be cynical, it makes devs money to put in a popular and often well received feature like that.
I don’t see how it’s them being wrong. I think it was clear like … the first comment of your thread, is you’re not really a businessman or game developer.
Aside from you pretending you know about the MMORPG when you demonstrated you know absolutely nothing about the MMORPG genre, and you would benefit from shushing up…
…That is true that adding popular things to games wouldn’t make that thing in that game automatically good.
I think we older people (Yoomers and above) can list off some things that were really popular to add to games but the executions are always well mixed.
Arkham style combat
Quick time events (Ugh )
The “realistic” Brown filter
Zombie Modes/Zombie games
Open world features
And so on.
Yes, The Artist can do whatever they please to add in what they want for their game…
Including deciding to add things people want, or things that is popular. Or maybe they didn’t pick it because of that, and put it in because they themselves want it…
/cough cough The Burning Crusade.
…And, you know weirdly enough, why is flying not considered “antithetical” in non-mmo games, but only in MMO’s? That’s some strange double standard friend to be only angry at Flying in an MMO. Heck, many of the games that are RPG’s or explorative, have flying in it.
GTA 5 is a great example, it has so much secerts in the map, and the graphics are beautiful and so on, and yet their’s not only flying, but fast travel via taxis. And that game is still pretty good. But yet you don’t seem to mind?..
You actually don’t know what is bad or good for the long term health of the game and player retention.
Infact, i went back to take a look at the WoW subs pre WoD and uhh…
Huh, what’s this? BC has more subs then Vanilla? And BC was the expansion that introduced Flying? Interesting that you tell me it’s bad for long term health and player retention. Funnily enough, WoD was the expansion where they are suppose to get rid of flying and that just like dropped like a rock.
It’s almost like you have no idea what you’re talking about.
If you’re talking about now, speculation and rough guesses aren’t literally anything compared to official numbers, because it’s always going to be inaccurate and have questionable data collecting, like filtering certain kinds of players like M+'ers, use Sales, or in MMOpop’s case, use reddit users while keeping track of every (and i mean EVERY) MMO that has existed, dead, alive or in some cares, console exclusive to old outdated hardware that you can’t access to the official servers any more.
Why do you even care this dang much about other people and how they play anyways? Go slow if you really want to. Nobody is forcing you to go fast, only you can get to decide that…
Oh, and while were on the subject of engaging video games, Spiderman and other games that allow you to go though the “overworld” as quickly as possible, and a lot of them are well received. So you can just toss that argument of yours in the trash.
Oh no, a temporary event is gone for good. It’s a shame we have 900 other things to have fun with…
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