Zereth Mortis Feedback

I noticed yesterday while doing the apples world quest that Pocopoc was hitting the unkillable boss, even when I put my warlock pet on passive. Apparently while in combat you cannot dismiss Pocopoc, so I needed to run far enough away to get out of combat, which was hard to do given the density of the mobs down in the garden.

Can we get an option to dismiss Pocopoc while in combat?

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Yeah that oneā€™s irritating.

Another Pocopoc annoyanceā€“granted this one is less of a big deal but it happens more oftenā€“is that when I try to gather up a group of mobs to AOE down, I gather up the melee mobs and run them to a ranged. But Pocopoc will sometimes engage one of the melee mobs and prevent it from joining my group, so after Iā€™ve AOEā€™d down the others, I have to run back to Pocopoc and kill the last one by itself. Another case where Iā€™m better off just not having Pocopoc out.

Final quest and basically all other campaign quests should give SOMETHING towards patterns percentage to make it worth doing for people who dont generally get it done (Flying/Campaign)

I touched on this in my big post above, but because I feel this specific item needs adjustment:

(Despite the wowhead page saying it can drop from Xyā€™moxā€™s bag, I quite literally sat there doing nothing but spam the hotkey to open that bag for like 2 hours and didnā€™t get one. Soā€¦ Iā€™m assuming thatā€™s a bug in wowhead, either that or the drop rate is lower than the big love rocket lol. On top of that, the bag is a grey item, meaning it can safely be vendored - so if it has a purpose like this, it needs to be changed to a white item) The Olea Cache, as I touched on above, is horrible on luck and draws from the ENTIRE protoform synthesis material list, not just ones you still need.

The fact this only comes from feasts in ZM/Sepulcher is silly. If youā€™re raiding, youā€™ll likely get them for free just by having your guild drop them. (though, for an idea, I did Normal with my guild last night, we were in there 3 hours, and in those 3 hours, only 2 glimmers total dropped for members of the guild)

But for non-raiders, even LFR raiders? Youā€™ll be spending a LOT of money to get these.

Iā€™ve already went through ~60 Stone Soups and ~8 Hedonism Feasts. At ~300g per Soup and ~800g per Hedonism, Iā€™ve already spent ~25k gold and have nothing to show for it.

Meanwhile, thereā€™s people who have dozens of these because they have luck.

I understand we only need 2, and we have probably a year to get them. But as a non-raider, this means we will be spending a crap ton of money just to get attempts at this.

On top of this, the 15 minute timer between attempts is completely invisible and no way to know if itā€™s over. Plus we have no way to know if this timer ticks down if weā€™re logged out.

Itā€™s one thing if the drop is just insanely rare like the Glimmer of Cunning. Itā€™s another when itā€™s insanely rare and comes from something you have to physically pay gold for every single attempt.

And the worst part, is that due to the fact these are used in pets, not mounts, most players wonā€™t have feedback about it.

Perhaps you could add a way for us to trade Glimmers for like a currency, then use that currency to buy glimmers? As a sort of bad luck protection?

The biggest headscratcher for me is the fact the raid bosses donā€™t give any %.

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Touching onto Maizouā€™s point, I would like to bring another item from Protoform Synthesis for a review: the Unalloyed Bronze Ingot.

This is considered one of the rarer mount items to collect - To collect it, you need to work on a character all the way to Chapter 6 of the 9.2 Campaign, then unlock a specific secret Arcae Locus teleportation point, go into a secret room, interact with a console in the secret room, choose one specific option for a relatively low chance of obtaining this item. Not only that, but you have one chance per week at obtaining a Bronze Ingot, and you need 2 of them to craft all mounts that use this reagent.

One relatively low chance per week, hidden behind a console. Did you pick up the wrong option by accident (a very real possibility, considering its one correct option out of 7)? Sorry, better luck next week!

Of course, you can level multiple alts to attempt for this item, but each and every alt has to do the following to have a chance at this item, taking a considerable amount of work for, again, a small chance once per week per alt:

  • Complete the Zereth Mortis campaign all the way to the end of Chapter 6;
  • Work through the Cypher system until you unlock Sopranian Understanding (grinding 470 Cyphers).

I think an acceptable solution would either be reducing the cooldown on the Requisites Originator console (if I recall correctly, on the PTR it was a daily cooldown), or increase the drop chance for the Unalloyed Bronze Ingot.

Another suggestion I would bring up involves the Olea Cache, which was previously posted by Maizou - drastically increase the drop chance (if not outright guaranteeing it) for a random Protoform reagent to drop.

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I had got the schematic for this and then farmed the lattice for a couple of hours then realized I needed the ingot. I went to Wowhead and went through all of the contorted stuff to get to the console. Last week got nothing but this week (your post reminded me to check this again) that bar dropped. Maybe the drop rate has already been changed, is not that low, or I got super lucky.

One thing I have NOT got lucky on is the Domination Key for the Dominion Cache. Iā€™ve spent literally 12-15 hours standing around killing elites on my own farming the key. To give you an idea how many mobs Iā€™ve killed so far I have 47 Sandworn Chest Keys now. Not fragments. Keys. Thatā€™s 235 fragments. All to open one chestā€¦

I think itā€™s okay to have a weekly lockout on some of these items, they are technically mount drops after all, and itā€™s not like we really need to do a lot of work to try our luck again next week. Do we have proper numbers on droprates for these so far? Chapter 6 has only been out for two weekly resets after all.

That being said, I wouldnā€™t be against the suggestions made to improve this experience, especially the part about the Olea cache, which is in dire need of improvements already.

This is a shorter bit of feedback now that Iā€™ve got the perspective of being at the point of having the cypher console complete, being 6/6 cypher level and am just collecting mounts and pets at this point.

Even though Iā€™m cypher level 6/6 the gear that is available from ZM world quests is shown as iLvL226 on the worldmap mouse over, drops as an iLvL336 rare and has the chance to upgrade to an iLvL242 Epic. It would be nice if it capped out at iLvL252 epic (or just dropped cypher gear, for me cypher level 6, 252).

I remember on the PTR the max cypher iLvL was originally iLvL242 but the world quest items and the sandworn relics werenā€™t changed to iLvL252 at the same time, which is I think why the sandworn pieces are really not the RNG protection they were supposed to be. I also donā€™t think the trinkets drop as cypher gear at all, although the neck items do. It really would be nice if there were cypher gear trinkets.

The last item I have is that there are very few weapons to be had in ZM. There are a few off of the elite bosses e.g. Iska et.al. I did get a 2H staff drop from a chest I think that is ilvL236, but not frequently enough (only one of my 5 ZM alts got one and they are all honored) and the item level is pretty low. To the extent that people have to farm PvP weapons if they are mostly limited to solo play as I am (RL time commitment issues). The iLvL226 anima vendor sells a whole host of weapons but they really should be dropping as cypher gear as well at the appropriate cypher level iLvL, in my case iLvl252.

Okay, we are a couple months in now, so I think this will be my final feedback: (hopefully).


Protoform Synthesis Materials -

Iā€™ve mentioned this before, but some of these materials need drop rate increases. (I have all of these except the motes and tools, before people say Iā€™m just trying to make it easier on myself lol. This is just my observations in my attempts)

  1. Glimmers of Satisfaction took me 180 of my own feasts and god knows how many from other people to get my 2. Thatā€™s ridiculous, to be blunt.

  2. Glimmers of Cunning also need an increase if the Tarachnid Eggs are going to retain such a long respawn. I genuinely lost track of how many I opened and how many groups I essentially harassed by using them to realm hop to bypass the ridiculous respawn timer.

  3. Windā€™s Infinite Callā€¦

  1. These are mobs we donā€™t kill. Thereā€™s no quests to kill them, nothing. So why is the drop rate so low? 1500 attempts for my first one? Really? And the 2nd one took I think 300 something. Check the wowhead comments for the item and youā€™ll see itā€™s one of the most hated items of 9.2. Itā€™s one thing when we are constantly killing the mobs for quests, like with the Protoform Sentience Crown and Eternal Ragepearl - which is why I personally donā€™t have a problem with those 2 items. (Though I know a lot of people do) - because we are killing them constantly, so eventually people will get them. But these birds are not used for ANY quest, and theyā€™re neutral so you donā€™t even kill them cause of accidental aggro. They literally only exist for farming these. And theyā€™re insanely spread out, I might add.

  2. Tools of Incomprehensible Experimentation - Iā€™m currently 0/12 on Luhivum on them, and yes, the toons I did it on had the mount forge unlocked. Iā€™ve also yet to see a single person in any of my runs get a tool from them. I know they drop because wowhead, but this is just cruel.

  3. Genesis Motes - I said these were fine in my last post, and I mostly agree with it. However, I still need another 12,000 motes after obtaining every other needed item except the tools from the raid. So that seems a bit imbalanced, considering the only things I farmed were the 2 glimmers and the winds I mentioned. I remember devs in multiple betas saying different parts of quests should take about the same time. This, not so much.

  4. Unalloyed Bronze Ingot - I didnā€™t have a problem with these, but a lot of my friends and people in discords Iā€™m in have. Iā€™m so far 4 out of 4 on them (with 2 stuck in my mailbox cause for some reason we canā€™t delete mail with items in it) However, I have friends who have done it on multiple toons each week and still havenā€™t found one.

There might be some pieces Iā€™m missing, but these are the ones I wanted to bring up again. And before someone says ā€œYou have a year to do itā€ - yes. But I am an outlier. As I said in my intro post, Iā€™m what people call a ā€œhardcore casualā€ in that, I do casual content, but I play much more than most people. So what took me 2 months, is going to take most casual people - what the forge is designed for - the entire year. And these outlier items are going to make that possibly take longer.


Pocopoc Customization -

Thereā€™s a LOT and I mean a lot of animosity towards the devs on multiple websites and discords over this. We had zero indication these were timegated. And on top of that, the timegate was a month and a half with no reason as itā€™s literally just cosmetics for pocopoc.

If it was bugged and you fixed it, then some acknowledgment would have been nice. That said - most of the animosity is from a specific customization piece.

This only comes from the Locked Provis Cache. Which requires a key. Which is an RNG drop from an orb from RNG drops of strands from tapping forges. And itā€™s not a 100% drop. (to give you an idea I just spent 30 minutes doing nothing but tapping forges and got 11. You need 15 for an Orb. Weeks ago, I made 23 orbs hunting for the achievement item and got a whopping one key from those 23 orbs) And then the chest isnā€™t even a 100% drop of the pocopoc piece so thatā€™s going to suck even more.

So itā€™s quite literally triple/quadruple depending on how you view it, RNG on RNG on RNG (on RNG). Iā€™m not sure how anyone thinks thatā€™s okay? Lol.

To make matters worse, most people already farmed the Provis keys in the past weeks. And all of those attempts are now meaningless as we now know the customization pieces werenā€™t dropping until this Tuesday.

I know this is just a fun part of the game, as thereā€™s not even an achievement tied to it (to my knowledge at least), but it still sucked the fun out of it for a lot of people, as you let us unlock pocopoc customization day one, but didnā€™t inform us we couldnā€™t do anything with it until now.


Treasures -

Just a small note, a lot of the treasures will be removed from the minimap when someone loots them. Some of them are removed from the minimap a short time after theyā€™re looted. Either way - this shouldnā€™t happen. Thereā€™s plenty of time for people to loot these treasures but most just run past because they arenā€™t showing on the minimap so they donā€™t see them.


Puzzles Weekly -

Thereā€™s a lot of people who feel you overbuffed how long this takes to complete, and I agree to an extent. However, my main issue is that raid boss kills donā€™t contribute to this - why? Weā€™re killing enemies in Zereth Mortis. If anything, raid bosses should be one of the fastest ways to complete this.


Reputation Vendor -

So, I was against this at first, as anyone on General Discussion who reads the threads knows, but the 265 Unity Belt on the vendor needs an account-wide unlock. Donā€™t get me wrong, I donā€™t think the campaign takes too long for one, two, or three toons. But once you start getting past that, it becomes a nuisance, and as even Blizzard has said many times, (and why they started adding skips) doing the same story over and over and over for player power is horrible feeling.

Likewise, the conduit items should be an account-wide unlock from the vendor. Itā€™s relatively easy to get to Friendly, but the Revered requirement for the other conduit item is kinda ridiculous, because it will take a month of doing every WQ each day each week to get Revered. (Based on calculations from Icy-Veins)


Quick Note on Caster Weapons -

Every spec has a 246 weapon available in Zereth Mortis. You even gave rogues a set bonus dagger to make up for the fact one of them is lower than 246.

However, there isnā€™t a single off-hand caster item above 236 in Zereth Mortis. I received a caster dagger from the raid on my warlock, and I had to go grind PvP, which I despise, to get Conquest to buy an offhand. (I also got lots of insults for not being PvP geared, so that was fun)

Could you possibly add an off-hand caster shield and off-hand to the Dune Dominance Rares, or even to the Sandworm Relics vendor?

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The cost of the Olea Cache should be reduced. 700 Cyphers for 300g and 20 motes is pretty bad for the amount of farming it takes to get that many. The only thing of real value in there are the rare Schematic regents which is helpful for people that do not have a team to raid with.

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I thought about making a new thread for this but decided to put it here instead. If someone with more expertise on the subject than me felt like making an ā€œitemization designā€ thread I think it would be a great discussion.

So far I really like the ZM ā€œadditional effectsā€ that can be added to crafted items.

Trinkets might be a lot more interesting if there were several ā€œbaseā€ trinkets from dungeons, raids and PvP then a combination of crafted and ā€œdroppedā€ item modifiers for both secondary stats and ā€œspecial proceduresā€ which is basically the ā€œequipā€ or ā€œuseā€ effect.

This would allow the RNG aspect of item drops to remain to a degree while giving players more control on the final characteristics and tailored performance of the gear itemization. The ā€œspec procsā€ could also be item slot specific and apply to slots other than just trinkets.

Personally I find this idea to be really interesting. The fact that to a degree it already exists in ZM crafting must mean the devs arenā€™t fundamentally opposed to the concept :wink:

Example of in game ZM crafted item below: (I added the equip effect as the crafter from a crafting item I made whose recipe dropped in ZM, similar to missives but for equip effects rather than secondary stats)

My biggest gripe with Protoform Synthesis right now is just how we go about collecting materials and schematics for the mounts. Itā€™s almost 2x as annoying to get the mounts v. the Korthia rares because you need 1) the schematic and 2) the BoA material (some of which are obnoxious) + motes (easy in a farm group) to make the mount.

Take the Tools of Incomprehensible Experimentation. You get 1 as a hand-out for the first time you unlock the 2nd part (making mounts). After that you have to get it 2 times from Lihuvim in Sephlcher of the First Ones. Luckily this material drops on all difficulties including LFR, but 1) itā€™s not a 100% drop and 2) it will ONLY drop if that character has completed the research + 10-or-so quests required to unlock the forge. You canā€™t just log on another alt and attempt it like you would a straight boss-drop mount. It makes it a little more annoying and a little more time consuming if you are like me and choose to unlock it on several toons for the chance.

Overall, itā€™s kind of neat to craft mounts. I think the mounts (for the most part) are very pretty, especially the snail. I have crafted them all now minus the one that requires a recipe from the paragon cache of The Enlightened. Feels very accomplished, and now I can focus on crafting more pets (Iā€™ve only made 4 so far).

Side note: please, for the love of all that is sacred, stop adding mounts behind paragon caches.

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Please DO NOT add guards to the Catalyst its pretty fun right now in Warmode

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I enjoy the new Catalyst Creation, I have been using it on most of my lvl 60s. I do feel that it should have opened up a bit earlier but at least itā€™s here now.

I find myself having less and less to do in ZM now, which I suppose is both a good and bad thing really.

I do also share the annoyance about spending 700 Syphers to only get a few silver / gold and pretty much nothing else.

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The Forge-Tap is the most annoying collectable thing ever made. It was made even worse when I got everything, and then pocopoc upgrades were hotfixed in requiring me to do it again.

Itā€™s like 4 layers of RNG. My only solace was realm-hopping on various world boss groups to get the guaranteed one above Firimā€™s cave.

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So for the Enlightened rep, we paragon once roughly every 2 weeks. It really should be considered add rep to the daily quests.

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So, thereā€™s 3 things in Zereth Mortis that weā€™ve brought up before, and it still gets brought up almost daily in discords, General Discussion, etc.

  1. Sandworn Relics need to be made BoA, and have the stack size increase. The use for Sandworn relics is so casual outdoor players have a way to access tier without having to do raiding, PvP, or M+. However, this is lost when by the time you get the 1060 Sandworn Relics to buy 4 tier slot pieces, youā€™ll likely have already gotten tier-able pieces from things such as LFR, the weekly timewalking chest, etc.

Meanwhile, my rogue that hit 60 last week has had HORRIBLE LFR luck. I got a helm this week, which I can convert. However, she still needs a TON of Sandworn relics to craft the other 3. I have plenty on my other characters that have no use for them. Iā€™ve bought every mail piece on Maizou, for instance, and Iā€™ve bought most of the other sets on my other toons and have like 2k leftover relics with nothing to spend them on.

If these were BoA, I could mail them to my rogue to get 4p. If they were BoA, if I leveled another character to 60, they could act as faster catchup than the 226 tokens, to reward people who actually put in effort to gather the relics by playing in Zereth Mortis.

The stack size also needs an increase - 250 is way too little in its current state with the prices of the gear.

  1. The Unity Belt needs to be made account-wide on the Zereth Mortis vendor. You once said that no player power should be tied behind having to do the same questline on every single character. And yet, for people who donā€™t want to shell out money for a 291 unity legendary for every single alt - this is doing just that.

If we do the same questline we did on our first character over and over, we get the 265 belt on those toons.

Why can you not just enable the belt on the vendor for every character on the account once you have completed the ZM campaign on your main? The belt is already on the vendor, all you have to do is make it visible if you have the ZM campaign achievement on your account.

  1. This doesnā€™t affect me, but I didnā€™t want it left out, cause itā€™s a common topic among other CC members Iā€™ve seen talking:

This item, which is gated behind Keystone Hero, Elite, or Mythic Supulcher on that character - but it has another caveat.

It also requires you do the Zereth Mortis campaign on that toon as well. This ties back to #2, in that youā€™re requiring us to repeat a questline to earn player power. Again, this doesnā€™t affect me, as I do not do that part of the game - but itā€™s still something worth mentioning. The ZM campaign requirement is ridiculous when you consider the M+, PvP, or Mythic Raid requirements that must be done on each character.


I still have choice words for parts of Protoform Synthesis, but I think I gave plenty of feedback on that earlier, as have others. :stuck_out_tongue:

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I would just point out that nothing stops you from crafting unity at a lower ilvl as long as you reach revered on one character and buy the account wide memory.