You're welcome Alliance

11/04/2018 01:37 AMPosted by Hnetu
11/04/2018 01:27 AMPosted by Espur
...
Agreed. Also important to mention they indirectly made the Horde even more angry at the Alliance, as cross-realm mythic is locked behind Alliance progression now - Horde players seem to think it's because Alliance players aren't as good and not that all of our top players and guilds already faction changed.


Considering they go out of their way to make little snide comments every single year to stoke the fires, it's not surprising at all.

From clearly investigative guests like Corpsegrinder and that epic !@#$show of a video to the "Not in the face" to straight up replacing us with NPCs? It's like a parent who wants their kids to fight so they have an excuse to punish one. They get the older brother all riled up and violent, then say the younger has done something and now neither get dessert. So older punches younger... And parent blames younger for it. "Well, maybe if you hadn't misbehaved in the first place." Now younger kid has no dessert, and got punched in the face.

And yet... people will wonder why the younger kid has a chip on their shoulder...


I wish more people would stop and think about this point, but I fear many people will overlook it or try to make justifications.
11/04/2018 01:23 AMPosted by Hnetu
No, they blame the players and insult us. How the !@#$ is that acceptable, at all, for a company to insult their paying customers?

Agreed. Also important to mention they indirectly made the Horde even more angry at the Alliance, as cross-realm mythic is locked behind Alliance progression now - Horde players seem to think it's because Alliance players aren't as good and not that all of our top players and guilds already faction changed.


Often ignored or forgotten about.
Horde just keeps on winning!
Was here when they introduced Faction Change. Wintergrasp was always competitive and the wins lose ration was roughly a 50 50 split. The Sometimes holding the defense once in a while. Then Faction change came and we never got control of Wintergrasp back because the Horde now suddenly outnumbered us 5 to 1 there.

I still say Faction Change was Blizzard's worst decision of all time.
11/04/2018 01:54 AMPosted by Gorbash
Horde just keeps on winning!


Alliance just keeps on whining!
I mean, they did tell us that they're gonna increase War Mode bonuses for the faction with less players.

So they essentially are turning War Mode into an even bigger bonus for Alliance.
Years of being the butt people.


Is why the alliance stinks
11/04/2018 01:23 AMPosted by Hnetu

But they're not friendly jabs.

Poking fun at someone in a position of power is a friendly jab. Poking fun at someone who's not is just cruelty.

Everyone already knows the Alliance is the struggling underdog faction with racials that aren't up to par and a community that's hemorrhaging almost daily as guilds who want to progress further need warm bodies to recruit and the only place to find them are on Horde-side. Blizzard consistently adds fuel to this fire by brazenly insulting half their playerbase themselves. You yourself gave a few examples of it. They, as developers, perpetuate the hatred.

Hypothetically:

When you make fun of some rich fatcat who has everything and doesn't have to work, teasing that he's probably inept at whatever mundane task because he just pays someone to do it for him... we can all chuckle because hey, that guy's already in a good position. He's well off financially, has everything sorted for him, and our teasing won't hurt him at all.

Finding the homeless guy in your town and kicking him, telling him he's a loser for smelling bad cause y'know, he's homeless? That's just... mean. You don't get to say "It's just a joke, grow a thicker skin." because his feelings hurt and you don't want to feel guilty about mocking the guy.

Now yes, these are hyperbolic examples but that's effectively what Blizzard has done and pretty consistently encourages. They go out of their way to insult the Alliance, and more specifically, Alliance players. That has a trickle down knock on effect where Horde players learn that it's acceptable to also be jerks to Alliance players because hey, Blizz has their back on it. And when we Alliance players call people out on it, Horde players defend it. And you know damn well if the shoe were on the other foot things would be a lot different. But because you're the insulter and not the insultee it's cool.

But it's not. How healthy is the game if they need to make PvP a PvE sport by giving NPCs for Horde players to play against. Even if we ignore things like racials (because small bonuses are insignificant, whatever) that still means there's such a massive disparity in faction size that one side can't realistically access a portion of the game. So what does Blizzard do? Attempt to actually fix the problem?

No, they blame the players and insult us. How the !@#$ is that acceptable, at all, for a company to insult their paying customers?


I think you may be missing the subtle point of my post.

Let's also say "many Horde players learn..." and "many Horde players defend..." because it is not any more fair to lump all Horde players together based on a few less savory examples, perceived or actual, than it is to do likewise with Alliance. I would not wish my own personal opinion, good or bad, to be foisted upon those with whom I disagree. But on to my point....

For the sake of argument, I am willing to call these "friendly jabs," even if I think some or all are not necessarily "friendly", whatever the intention may have been. That's why I left out the more egregious examples that just don't belong: I want to give the greatest benefit of the doubt possible to give the most chance of union (between players) as possible.

Poking fun at someone "on your level" is a friendly jab. Friends give eachother a hard time all the time, and if they're really a friend don't mean any cruelty by it.

The assumption is that the Horde vs. Alliance (player) banter should be looked at and appreciated in the same way as people cheering for their favorite sports teams. "Trash is talked", so to speak, (i.e. "Your team is going down" and all that) but at the end of the day, both sides should appreciate and understand they share a love of the game.

It is quite possible for Blizzard to help stoke this "friendly rivalry" between Alliance players and Horde players, even getting in the fun together with the players, because they too are gamers... or have been, depending on your opinion in that regard. But if they are going to be involved in the "friendly rivalry", it does help if it's something they demonstrate to the playerbase, and that requires seeing both sides within Blizzard going back and forth in a friendly fashion.

So let's say these are friendly jabs from the Horde perspective in Blizzard. There are bound to be Alliance players at Blizzard too. Certainly there have been some friendly jabs levied at the Horde? Because I don't believe I've heard them spoken of, either good or ill, I want to hear them. There has to have been some Alliance-based jabs toward the Horde from or between Blizzard employees in that same spirit, either at Blizzcon, or on the Forums, or on Twitter, or in an interview. Examples of this would show that it's not just the Alliance Blizzard is taking aim at, so I think it would be a very good thing for all of us on both teams if we could hear some of those. We all know how much many players love to throw memes at eachother :)

If there are no examples, and this is friendly banter, then the question to be dispassionately considered from the Alliance player and the Horde player perspective is: Why is Blizzard willing to have this banter with the Alliance but not the Horde?

It is a delicate balance between being "aloof and on high" and being "down in the trenches," and if they do mix it up, they run the risk of players grasping onto that as a reason everything goes wrong for them: "The quest guy was Alliance that's why the Alliance story is awesome and Horde story sucks" or "The Encounters guy was a Hordie that's why Horde dominates raids."

Though, they're already facing that now, and there's no way to convince some people there's not some sort of bias, Alliance or Horde, so maybe the most people would feel better if they felt they had someone who was "on their side" in at least some aspect of the game. But your mileage may vary on that, and trying to live up to that on a corporate level creates a whole new level of potential nightmares that we need not list. I believe there was a joke way back when of a certain CM being forced to roll a Paladin on a PvP server in order to appease Paladins, for a lighter-hearted example.

So that brings us back to my request in my original post: Can we find any examples of Blizzard taking "friendly jabs" at the Horde that we can share and show it's not just the Alliance they're bantering with?
If you're the developer of a game played by millions and millions of people across the planet you should be professional enough to focus on the other faction as much as your own faction.

If a developer plays Horde and enjoys the Horde more than the Alliance that's ok but be professional enough to put the same effort into the other faction as you do your own. This is your product that you get paid to work on so pull up those pants and put it in the work, not just on your own side but on the other.

These jokes and quips just come off childish. If you can't be professional enough to put work into faction balance on the game you get paid to work on then maybe you shouldn't be working on an MMO.
11/04/2018 02:24 AMPosted by Uhehtar
11/04/2018 01:23 AMPosted by Hnetu

But they're not friendly jabs.

Poking fun at someone in a position of power is a friendly jab. Poking fun at someone who's not is just cruelty.

Everyone already knows the Alliance is the struggling underdog faction with racials that aren't up to par and a community that's hemorrhaging almost daily as guilds who want to progress further need warm bodies to recruit and the only place to find them are on Horde-side. Blizzard consistently adds fuel to this fire by brazenly insulting half their playerbase themselves. You yourself gave a few examples of it. They, as developers, perpetuate the hatred.

Hypothetically:

When you make fun of some rich fatcat who has everything and doesn't have to work, teasing that he's probably inept at whatever mundane task because he just pays someone to do it for him... we can all chuckle because hey, that guy's already in a good position. He's well off financially, has everything sorted for him, and our teasing won't hurt him at all.

Finding the homeless guy in your town and kicking him, telling him he's a loser for smelling bad cause y'know, he's homeless? That's just... mean. You don't get to say "It's just a joke, grow a thicker skin." because his feelings hurt and you don't want to feel guilty about mocking the guy.

Now yes, these are hyperbolic examples but that's effectively what Blizzard has done and pretty consistently encourages. They go out of their way to insult the Alliance, and more specifically, Alliance players. That has a trickle down knock on effect where Horde players learn that it's acceptable to also be jerks to Alliance players because hey, Blizz has their back on it. And when we Alliance players call people out on it, Horde players defend it. And you know damn well if the shoe were on the other foot things would be a lot different. But because you're the insulter and not the insultee it's cool.

But it's not. How healthy is the game if they need to make PvP a PvE sport by giving NPCs for Horde players to play against. Even if we ignore things like racials (because small bonuses are insignificant, whatever) that still means there's such a massive disparity in faction size that one side can't realistically access a portion of the game. So what does Blizzard do? Attempt to actually fix the problem?

No, they blame the players and insult us. How the !@#$ is that acceptable, at all, for a company to insult their paying customers?


I think you may be missing the subtle point of my post.

Let's also say "many Horde players learn..." and "many Horde players defend..." because it is not any more fair to lump all Horde players together based on a few less savory examples, perceived or actual, than it is to do likewise with Alliance. I would not wish my own personal opinion, good or bad, to be foisted upon those with whom I disagree. But on to my point....

For the sake of argument, I am willing to call these "friendly jabs," even if I think some or all are not necessarily "friendly", whatever the intention may have been. That's why I left out the more egregious examples that just don't belong: I want to give the greatest benefit of the doubt possible to give the most chance of union (between players) as possible.

Poking fun at someone "on your level" is a friendly jab. Friends give eachother a hard time all the time, and if they're really a friend don't mean any cruelty by it.

The assumption is that the Horde vs. Alliance (player) banter should be looked at and appreciated in the same way as people cheering for their favorite sports teams. "Trash is talked", so to speak, (i.e. "Your team is going down" and all that) but at the end of the day, both sides should appreciate and understand they share a love of the game.

It is quite possible for Blizzard to help stoke this "friendly rivalry" between Alliance players and Horde players, even getting in the fun together with the players, because they too are gamers... or have been, depending on your opinion in that regard. But if they are going to be involved in the "friendly rivalry", it does help if it's something they demonstrate to the playerbase, and that requires seeing both sides within Blizzard going back and forth in a friendly fashion.

So let's say these are friendly jabs from the Horde perspective in Blizzard. There are bound to be Alliance players at Blizzard too. Certainly there have been some friendly jabs levied at the Horde? Because I don't believe I've heard them spoken of, either good or ill, I want to hear them. There has to have been some Alliance-based jabs toward the Horde from or between Blizzard employees in that same spirit, either at Blizzcon, or on the Forums, or on Twitter, or in an interview. Examples of this would show that it's not just the Alliance Blizzard is taking aim at, so I think it would be a very good thing for all of us on both teams if we could hear some of those. We all know how much many players love to throw memes at eachother :)

If there are no examples, and this is friendly banter, then the question to be dispassionately considered from the Alliance player and the Horde player perspective is: Why is Blizzard willing to have this banter with the Alliance but not the Horde?

It is a delicate balance between being "aloof and on high" and being "down in the trenches," and if they do mix it up, they run the risk of players grasping onto that as a reason everything goes wrong for them: "The quest guy was Alliance that's why the Alliance story is awesome and Horde story sucks" or "The Encounters guy was a Hordie that's why Horde dominates raids."

Though, they're already facing that now, and there's no way to convince some people there's not some sort of bias, Alliance or Horde, so maybe the most people would feel better if they felt they had someone who was "on their side" in at least some aspect of the game. But your mileage may vary on that, and trying to live up to that on a corporate level creates a whole new level of potential nightmares that we need not list. I believe there was a joke way back when of a certain CM being forced to roll a Paladin on a PvP server in order to appease Paladins, for a lighter-hearted example.

So that brings us back to my request in my original post: Can we find any examples of Blizzard taking "friendly jabs" at the Horde that we can share and show it's not just the Alliance they're bantering with?


No.

Because it’s not banter, it’s mockery, and the devs only do it to the Alliance. You can’t find what isn’t there.
Some people have to realise you don't play a game for 11 years if you don't love it and care about it. I do care a lot about WoW and it even have a special place in my heart as i met my wife ingame. 8 years we have been married now and she gave me a cute boy that is now 6 years old. We both still play WoW and we are Alliance at heart also for the better or for worse.

Some people who posted in this thread were really good to describe how we feel right now about WoW. I'm french speaking and english is not my first language so i do really appreciate their input and support.

Everything have been said so i will just add this. Whatever your Horde or Alliance, we all do care about WoW and it sadden me that the ones who are making this game are the ones who do not care. Especially when it comes to faction imbalance which is imo the heart of WoW.

The "You're welcome Alliance" was not a friendly jab. It was a jab and it was made to make you believe that those AI bots are for easy victories for the bad Alliance pvp players when in reality they are not. We all know why those bots are there and Blizz won't admit it. Hypocrisy stinks even more when it comes with a jab.

ps : now you know why my english grammar is not the best but i'm trying really hard.
I'd hate to see how you handle real adversity if this got your panties in a twist
Blizz will be Blizz
How do you people handle real life insults if you can't handle a joke about video game stereotypes.
11/03/2018 05:37 PMPosted by Bekram
11/03/2018 05:31 PMPosted by Ulkessh
jesus, what did they say now?
there was a slide for a vs ai Arathi Basin brawl and they had you're welcome alliance at the bottom of the slide as a joke


I also saw a thread about Blizz putting a Horde symbol on Varian's tomb.
Posting in a human paladin thread.

Why are so many Alliance players going out of their way to be a victim?

Its just hilarious at this point.

How do you survive real life if every single little thing, you twist into some level of oppression?
11/04/2018 07:54 AMPosted by Akston
Posting in a human paladin thread.

Why are so many Alliance players going out of their way to be a victim?

Its just hilarious at this point.

How do you survive real life if every single little thing, you twist into some level of oppression?


They !@#$% and moan and riot.
It's a common theme in blizzcon, honestly as an alliance player I was pretty upset. I get upset every year about it, but nothing changes. Each time someone asks a dev, horde or alliance, they say horde horde horde. That is perfectly fine, it's totally acceptable that they play horde, I get that. It's cool.

However, hearing it and then seeing the "jokes" they themselves say kinda makes it not cool anymore....I still remember them making fun of gnomes, and even tho most players found that funny, I thought it was tasteless. It's not funny when your player base has expressed that they don't appreciate it, the first time sure, you didn't know, but you are aware now that we don't like it.

We are made fun of enough by horde that we don't need jokes by the dev and workers at blizzcon that we rely on for our factions pride.
It's sad but I find myself cringing each time I hear someone ask a dev/panel attendee which faction they play, it feels like it's not anymore just saying it as a player they enjoy horde, but as a slap in the face. And it feels like that because of these "jokes". Stop the jokes. I walk away from blizzcon each year respecting the team less and less.
11/04/2018 07:58 AMPosted by Thavali
It's a common theme in blizzcon, honestly as an alliance player I was pretty upset. I get upset every year about it, but nothing changes. Each time someone asks a dev, horde or alliance, they say horde horde horde. That is perfectly fine, it's totally acceptable that they play horde, I get that. It's cool.

However, hearing it and then seeing the "jokes" they themselves say kinda makes it not cool anymore....I still remember them making fun of gnomes, and even tho most players found that funny, I thought it was tasteless. It's not funny when your player base has expressed that they don't appreciate it, the first time sure, you didn't know, but you are aware now that we don't like it.

We are made fun of enough by horde that we don't need jokes by the dev and workers at blizzcon that we rely on for our factions pride.
It's sad but I find myself cringing each time I hear someone ask a dev/panel attendee which faction they play, it feels like it's not anymore just saying it as a player they enjoy horde, but as a slap in the face. And it feels like that because of these "jokes". Stop the jokes. I walk away from blizzcon each year respecting the team less and less.


Pretty sure they made a joke about the Horde needing a new warchief soon.
11/04/2018 07:52 AMPosted by Viviornitier
11/03/2018 05:37 PMPosted by Bekram
...there was a slide for a vs ai Arathi Basin brawl and they had you're welcome alliance at the bottom of the slide as a joke


I also saw a thread about Blizz putting a Horde symbol on Varian's tomb.


They really have no respect for half their playerbase.