I don’t know why this is a surprise. Insulting the Alliance is a Blizzcon tradition. But, just a note: it’s been 14 years. The joke hasn’t been funny for a long time.
It’s like that one guy from Highschool who kept saying racist/sexist/homophobic things and following it up with a “It’s just a joke”
The first time? Maybe. The hundredth? Your just a douche.
...
My concern, and i'm pretty sure it's the case for most of the Alliance players, is balance. With balance we can fight our way to the top. With balance we can give Horde players quality PvP. Bias bring us all down. Bots are the worst thing that can happen to PvP.
The game is already pretty balanced in terms of racial (abit in favor of Alliance)
Top blizzcon arena team like Method Black still using strong combination like Human+ Relentless and Dwarf healer combo.
Night Elf being the strongest race for Blizzcon Dungeon invitational, Method NA race changed their entire roster to Night Elf then win Blizzcon.
If you actually want balance then nerf shadowmeld to 5 minute cooldown or nerf Stoneform.
Racial isn't the reason Alliance sucks.
Wasn't that because of a particular affix? When you can pick what race you wanna play and what gear you wanna use just before the match, well then you tend to pick what's gonna work best just for that situation. But it's a different story entirely to have to make a pick that works for multiple situations rather than being able to individually tailor your character to the situation in front of you.
For example, if you wanted to pick a dps character for all levels of content, and you were trying to pick between a Frost DK and a Havoc DH, you'd be silly not to choose Havoc at this point in the game because Havoc is useful in pvp, M+, and raid, while Frost DK really only shines in raid. However, if you were allowed to pick your class before doing a piece of content, you might pick Frost DK for the raid scenario since it slightly edges out Havoc in overall dmg in a raid setting. It doesn't make for a good overall pick though.
Likewise, we know the power of a realm becoming the meta realm. In general, having a bigger recruitment pool > racials. Racials are pretty equal at this point, with a minor overall advantage to horde thanks to more consistent usefulness, but it's not enough to cause the giant disparity we see. This is why the Oceanic realms can be Alliance dominated these days and still do fine. It's all about the meta.
11/03/2018 05:34 PMPosted by Kirela11/03/2018 05:31 PMPosted by Ulkesshjesus, what did they say now?
I didn't quite understand the slide, but something about having more AI to go up against for some things and they added at the end of the slide (You're Welcome, Alliance) due to the theory that Alliance are outnumbered and outgunned (outgunned meaning majority of skill is on the Horde side).
LOL! Outgunned is NOT a measure of skill, its a measure of numbers and firepower.
HAHAHAH!!!!
11/05/2018 03:24 AMPosted by NodovoodooIf you call 'story content' your faction canabalizing itself every couple of expansions, sure it's inbalanced.
I'd prefer the Horde not have this 'fight amongst yourselves because savages' thing.
Honestly, the story isn't the problem (some small writing things here and there aside.) Story is story. It's not required to be "balanced" because imbalance is what makes narrative interesting. If anything, you want to be on the losing end in the story because it means you've got some awesome moments to look forward to (case of exception being the treatment of heroes like Malfurion and Tyrande where they basically have spent the past 14 years doing absolutely nothing useful.)
If I had to complain about story at all, it's the dev team's tendency to try and paint both sides as being losers at the same time as I feel that detracts from the ongoing narrative by painting conflicting/subjective truth and just makes things confusing in the end.
True balance needs to come in the gameplay, and that is where the Alliance is deficient. We can both "win the war" in the story, AND be a total ghost town faction at the same time. It's possible, and I'd rather repeatedly run a Siege of Stormwind raid that results in SW getting leveled in-game than put up with not being able to actually play the game due to my faction not having any players.
Simply because the story pendulum can swing back around far more easily than a playerless faction can be resurrected.
11/05/2018 04:23 AMPosted by ZaluzanLet's seey they joke about Horde changing Warchief literally once per expansion. Everyone's ok.
That was literally the first joke I've ever heard at a blizzcon that was made at the Horde's expense.
I think it's time that you grew a thicker skin.
lol they say 1 joke and you go full tantrum mode by refusing to do anything11/03/2018 05:30 PMPosted by HalodinReally Blizz?
Not only you are responsible for the imbalance between the factions but Alliance should thank you for it?
I admit, i've had some doubt about people saying that Blizzcon was a place full of snarky comments about the Alliance from the bias devs. So yes, thank you for removing all my doubts.
But i'll thank you more no worries. I'll thank you by not buying virtual tickets anymore and i wll also thank you by not puting a foot in your BGs and by turning my warmode off.
Thank you Blizz devs.
11/05/2018 04:52 AMPosted by ThèónSo Alliance has better PvP racials and horde has PvE ones? Cool.
Horde has better PvP racials too.
All of the good alliance PvP racials are self dispels and the most powerful ones have additional limitations like shared cooldowns with trinkets in addition to the most severely limited scope.
...all of which makes them vulnerable to things like good tactics, and good play.
Unlike horde PvP racials, which are either passive (when limited in scope), or offensively applicable (like war stomp) which makes them much more difficult, if not impossible, to out-play.
stop being such babies
11/05/2018 09:15 AMPosted by Kaylae
Wasn't that because of a particular affix? When you can pick what race you wanna play and what gear you wanna use just before the match, well then you tend to pick what's gonna work best just for that situation. But it's a different story entirely to have to make a pick that works for multiple situations rather than being able to individually tailor your character to the situation in front of you.
Nah they use Night Elf to reset/skip pack, which is useful in all dungeon since you get to use more potions.
Night Elves also pretty much immune to necrotic so there's that.
Horde player shows Alliance player how to play Night Elves in Blizzcon, its pathetic.
11/05/2018 11:30 AMPosted by EloreilHorde player shows Alliance player how to play Night Elves in Blizzcon, its pathetic.
Those horde players used to be alliance until MoP. So, you're wrong there.
11/05/2018 09:04 AMPosted by ElenstelleI don’t know why this is a surprise. Insulting the Alliance is a Blizzcon tradition. But, just a note: it’s been 14 years. The joke hasn’t been funny for a long time.
It’s like that one guy from Highschool who kept saying racist/sexist/homophobic things and following it up with a “It’s just a joke”
The first time? Maybe. The hundredth? Your just a douche.
Making fun of alliance? It's tradition/a joke/etc.
Making fun of horde? It's a systemic problem that illustrates an ongoing deficiency in the story department regarding the lack of good writing for horde leadership.
The double-standards just keep coming.
Ugh, some people here needs some real vacations, the salt is over 9000
11/05/2018 10:57 AMPosted by Ollin11/05/2018 04:52 AMPosted by ThèónSo Alliance has better PvP racials and horde has PvE ones? Cool.
Horde has better PvP racials too.
All of the good alliance PvP racials are self dispels and the most powerful ones have additional limitations like shared cooldowns with trinkets in addition to the most severely limited scope.
...all of which makes them vulnerable to things like good tactics, and good play.
Unlike horde PvP racials, which are either passive (when limited in scope), or offensively applicable (like war stomp) which makes them much more difficult, if not impossible, to out-play.
Not to mention, they lowered the cooldown of many Horde racials to 1.5 minutes, left ALL alliance racials at 2 minutes, and nerfed Every Man For Himself.
The racials are NOT equal.
I like the racials. They add flavor. I LOVE my shadowmeld, especially with as often as Feign Death fails to work properly. But maybe they need to go...or be added to a pick list, and you can pick any two you want. Simply because Blizzard is TERRIBLE at balance.
11/05/2018 12:38 PMPosted by ShadethistleI like the racials. They add flavor. I LOVE my shadowmeld, especially with as often as Feign Death fails to work properly. But maybe they need to go...or be added to a pick list, and you can pick any two you want. Simply because Blizzard is TERRIBLE at balance.
As much as I complain about racials, I would hate to see them go away completely.
IMO, what they need to do is realize the inherent weakness with self-dispels, and get rid of *those*.
EMFH
WOTF
Escape Artist
etc...
Delete them and start over where necessary. Make sure every race has some kind of **fun** active racial ability.
The original intent of the racial abilities was to ensure that the horde didn't fall behind the alliance since they knew that paladins were more powerful than shamans. Therefore, they gave the horde better racial abilities by design.
However, now the shoe is on the other foot and not only are both factions mirrors for class access, the horde is not less powerful than the alliance by design. The one hand didn't bother to talk to the other hand when TBC was being developed and the trend of giving the horde more powerful racial abilities continued even as the horde's shortcommings were made up for.
At some point, I think the idea became "give horde the PvE racials, and the alliance the PvP racials". Unfortunately, this meant that the alliance, with their plethora of self-dispels, had very tightly controlled racial abilities. Many of which seem to be "opt-in" by PvE designers (evidenced by the large number of boss mechanics that act like things an alliance racial should be able to dispel, but cannot actually be dispelled.
The horde will also sometimes encounter mechanics like this that act like charm, sleep, or fear effects without actually being a charm, sleep, or fear effect, rendering WOTF useless.
Of course, the different here in PvE is that for the horde WOTF is the odd-man-out while for the Alliance it's the norm.
The horde, OTOH, gets stacked with active, offensive abilities that tend to be designed around, but are far more likely to have unintended side effects (see: Zul, Reborn vs Arcane Torrent). Additionally, since these unintended side effects never seem to get fixed (which I can understand. Why not let them feel rewarded for making a choice?), reality is imbalanced because of the self-dispel nature of most of the Alliance's racial abilities.
Dispels are a core mechanic that used to be spammable. Which means that dispel mechanics are very, very well accounted for making the chance that an alliance self-dispel racial is going to break anything effectively zero.
I mean, if EMFH prevented Vectis's Gestate from spawning an add it would be broken on par with AT during Zul. However, it doesn't because it's a defensive, single target dispel which is far more locked down than anything offensive tends to be.
Finally you've got the PvP-PvE interaction which means that if a self-dispel isn't locked down super-hard, it's going to be OP. This means that alliance racial abilities cannot afford to have much WOW-factor to them as they can become OP extremely easily. Though, it doesn't explain why WOTF is a 2 min CD when pretty much all of the others barring Escape Artist (the most useless racial in the game) clock in at 3.
Beyond the self dispels, Alliance active abilities tend to be "more damage" (I lump the draenei heal in here as well, only it's even less useful).
Alliance doesn't have any fun button mechanics that have room for unintended interactions capable of making a boss easier.
Basically, what I'm trying to say is that Blizzard isn't terrible at balance. The problem is that it seems like balance was never the goal, and along the way someone forgot the original goal.
11/05/2018 10:57 AMPosted by Ollin11/05/2018 04:52 AMPosted by ThèónSo Alliance has better PvP racials and horde has PvE ones? Cool.
Horde has better PvP racials too.
All of the good alliance PvP racials are self dispels and the most powerful ones have additional limitations like shared cooldowns with trinkets in addition to the most severely limited scope.
...all of which makes them vulnerable to things like good tactics, and good play.
Unlike horde PvP racials, which are either passive (when limited in scope), or offensively applicable (like war stomp) which makes them much more difficult, if not impossible, to out-play.
If you can't outplay a war stomp then you need to get good at the game. The racials don't mean a damn thing. Oh no, the belf removed my BoP! Should have used divine shield.
You're the reason nobody takes the Alliance seriously.
It was pretty funny.
It was pretty funny.
11/05/2018 01:12 PMPosted by SmirgYou're the reason nobody takes the Alliance seriously.
It was pretty funny.
It was funny! People play the professional victim card way too much.
11/05/2018 01:08 PMPosted by ThèónIf you can't outplay a war stomp then you need to get good at the game. The racials don't mean a damn thing. Oh no, the belf removed my BoP! Should have used divine shield.
Yet when EMFH affected everything on the same CD, it was bonkers-levels of OP.
"If you can't press your CC button a second time, and can't rotate in a second type of CC, you need to get good at the game."
If you can't play around that human's 2nd damage trinket, you need to get good at the game.
Because the racials only mean a damn thing when the alliance have good ones, I guess.
I completely can't take any Alliance serious who gets offended by this.
Grow up, it's a joke.
Grow up, it's a joke.