Much, much shorter keys.
15 mins mini-dungeons, 10-mins runs.
… this seems waaaaay too specific.
How would that solve anything?
Shorter key times, deaths wrack up, timer is gone, people leave.
besides, the people who complain the most about “leavers” are usually in the 2-9 key range
I play some of the new "quick match| games and when I tell people to try out wow, what I get from youngsters is that it’s too much time and effort
I don’t think people mean actually playing the game mode when they say this
When people my age say this about WoW (that I know) they mean “level for 10 hours, then set up addons and your talents and UI for 5 hours, then gear up in other content like delves for 5 hours”
Although I do prefer 3 boss dungeons to 5 boss dungeons, maybe that’s an age thing 
or maybe it’s an “I don’t want to do so much single target in my aoe build” thing
First off, how do you know they’re young? They speak with you via voice comms? Age disclosure? If I had that happen, I’d hit the mute button immediately.
You cannot determine age via text.
I think a good “compromise” would be 20ish min dungeons.
The 30+ minute dungeons, yeah I hate those. My favourite dungeons have always been the 3 boss shorter runs. It’s why I liked Dawnbreaker, it was short. The longer dungeons like Motherlode for example I was just less likely to queue for. I always avoided the longer dungeons once I did them for score. Not worth it for vaults/crests
Yes sir. There is voice chat in games. And I make sounds, and they make sounds, and I hear sounds, and they are sounds of young men and women.
I do not have the habit of muting them because I do not fear their voices.
I do think it is. Games lately are a very different offer than WoW is. If WoW ever wants to attract more players, they’ll have to get rid of long game sessions, and I dare say, leveling.
Fellowship is an example of a game that ventured into removing those things from the MMO and focus on dungeoning à la M+.
I’ve been following this game for some time now, it interests me. It indeed seems like M+ the game. I hope it comes out soon.
I’d say that there’s probably an even larger market for a solo M+: the game, with AI NPC teammates.
Did you play the open beta? I had a blast.
Call me old, but the whole AI teamates thing is where I lose interest. I enjoy playing with others and chatting with them.
I didn’t play it but I watched some streams of it and it seemed like a blast! And I don’t intend to insult you, you like what you like and that’s great.
With much much shorter timer, with much much less deaths allowed. Sounds very noob friendly.
I mean, it’s a scalling system. It eventually splits the playerbase into ranks, as it does now. There will also be less death opportunities.
No what would solve the key leaver problem would be to stop making the game M+ or die. The timer is the problem more than anything - going back to the standard dungeon crawling experience without a timer or lazy affixes would be far better.
There’s a reason WOW’s subs peaked when M+ wasn’t a thing.
Could not agree more, and I’ve had this same opinion for all of TWW. Dungeons are too long. When a dungeon is run well, it takes 25+ minutes. It should be half that, IMO. Look at other games too, there’s data to suggest how long players enjoy holding their attention.
It used to be that groups would run a dungeon, and if it went well, would crush a few in a row. Now, I hardly ever see groups not disintegrate after the first key. I feel exhausted after 30 minutes of a dungeon, it’s too long to stay 100% focused. This issue was the worst in TWW Season 1, due to the AoE stop change, every single pack having multiple interrupts, curse dispels, etc. It’s better now, but the core issue remains.
When the community voted for the S3 dungeons to return, interesting how they picked 3/4 of the 3 boss dungeons.
Looking at my 12s that I’ve completed this expansion: Rookery 22 minutes, Cinderbrew 27 minutes, Dawnbreaker 24 minutes, AK 21 minutes, CoT 30 minutes, SV 28 minutes, Floodgate 30 minutes, DFC 30 minutes. There’s an even mix of “long” and “short”, even including dungeons from previous expansions. GB 22 minutes, Mists 23 minutes, NW and SoB 29 minutes, ToP 31 minutes, ML 32 minutes, Workshop 23 minutes.
Not really. The community wants the best rewards for the minimum amount of effort. It could be the worst dungeon in the game but if it’s shorter than the best one they’ll pick it (see: the still-bugged mess of a dungeon that is Dawnbreaker). Also trinkets influenced the votes heavily.
wow is 100% too much time and effort just to get into a m+ it can easily be 20 minutes unless you are at the cutting edge of item level then another 30 just for one run and you need 8 of those a week per character you play to stay at that cutting edge or close to it
20 seconds as a healer or tank but go off.
People would probably still leave early if they don’t feel like the team is worth their time, no matter how short you make the timer. But it would probably reduce the numbers some. I don’t think this would really bring in younger players, too many other hurdles in mmos before they even get there. You’d need something like fellowship that cuts out all of the hurdles before run duration even started to be a factor.
tank and healer can still take a bit if you are lacking bres or hero or the groups just dont want your class or you have bad io for the role