Kill affixes and its not even close the timer is necessary in my opinion but affixes are a blight on m+ as a whole and some affixes are way too impactful to where your fighting the affix rather than the dungeon itself
If we define an event by doing an action that rewards loot, then that compares a raid fight to a full m+ dungeon.
Raid fights often and regularly have timers.
Er, no, that’s not what I mean.
Some folks want M+ (i.e. challenging group content) but without a timer, right?
You said:
But there already is one: raids.
However, the only reason challenging content without a timer works for raids is because of the loot lockout; it doesn’t matter if you spend 1 hour or 3 hours or 6 hours in a raid, your loot is capped by the number of bosses.
Conversely, doing 6 hours of timed keys will net you more gear than 1 hour of timed keys.
So if the timer was removed from M+ but there was no loot lockout, then players would still try to speed run them to maximize gear acquisition; while there wouldn’t be a literal timer, there’d be a de facto timer, one set by the community.
Therefore, removing the timer from M+ means it would also have to be loot capped to prevent encouraging speed running / player anxiety (the “problem” players advocating for timer removal are trying to solve).
But, again, this content already exists in the game: raids. ![]()
So there’s zero chance Blizzard is ever going to remove the timer from M+, and a near zero chance that the loot lockout will be removed from raids. ![]()
the timer makes M+ fun, but the RP needs to be removed. For example the unnecessary dialog in Court of Stars as you ride the boat right after the key is inserted, etc that is included with the countdown, or right before the final boss fight.
Some affixes needs to go. Sanguine in blood-red environments like Darkheart Thicket or Sanguine Depths? What cruel monstrosity is that.
Yeah, just increase the scaling. I’d also cap the dungeons at some level, depending on the scaling. Like with the way things are currently, I’d cap them at 25. Score would somehow be granted for how fast you did a key, rather than how high, like mdi. I’d also somehow split up gear between keys and raid, similar to how pvp gear works now. But yeah, no affixes. The constant state would be like a nerfed fort and a nerfed tyrann meeting in the middle.
But why cap?
How bout option 3: kill the rewards. M+ should give a spiffy title for top players as well as a seasonal omni token like it does right now for ksm, along with the tier particle effect at a given rating.
Other than that it should just drop m0 loot and should not contribute to vault or, better yet, scrap the vault completely.
Just keep the rest the same… affixes and timer… if ppl want to esport they can esport. If you want gear, find a guild and raid for it.
why not have m+ gear not work in raids? If anything should turn gearless, it’s PVP.
Well that would be a great way to kill WoW off completely
If anything m+ should provide uncapped ilvl gear. (cause it is objectively the hardest content.) It only stops at +20 /489 ILVL to keep raiders on top.
First raiding would need its gear acquisition drastically buffed.
Then M+ would need its scaling buffed so that it isn’t so easy to get high quality gear.
20s are drastically easier than the raiding alternative.
489 at +25 seems fair.
(including upgrade tracks.) So make it 480 1/4 mythic from vault there.
Greatly depends on the dungeon. Because I think I could do a +25 BRH while not being a CE raider.
And yes, I know that some mythic raids bosses are easier than others. But m+ loot for vault would then have to look into being capped in a way as well, similar to how raids are.
Don’t think it needs to be capped.
(cause I don’t think a cap would promote healthy gameplay.)
Vault itself serves as the cap.
Capped as in reward variety.
Example. From the raid vault you typically can just get rewards from raid bosses you killed.
From M+, there isnt such limit. If I am able to only do the easiest +25, I could spam that 8 times and get 3 slots of gear from every dungeon including tier.
Even if your M+ vault was limited to only the dungeons you actually have completed at that level, a single dungeon will often have more loot variety for a person than a single raid boss.
capped in variety would be bad (because it’s a buff to rewards.)
I mean, that’s a fair question. I’m honestly just kinda desperate to shake things up substantially. I think a huge problem we have is perception that stems from what content creators do in extremely high keys. I think capping the keys would alleviate a lot of that, and funnel the playerbase significantly. It would, however, create a new problem, which is that the meta would shift to the same stuff you see in mdi. I think this could be pretty easily fixed by addressing uncapped aoe. Either give it to everyone or no one, etc.
I would really just like to try something crazy like this in a fated season where nobody even really cares anyway. It’s not gonna happen, but the conversations are still fun to have.
Why would capping it be good? Classes will get diffed in speed instead of in highest key.
Is it such a problem for content to exist that you personally cannot do?
I would eff M+. Marry Open World, and Kill all gray items.
In a certain way balance wouldn’t feel as much as a problem if it could be balanced on a cap. Obviously the top of the top keys will always be super bias. It doesn’t hurt me personally but It would definitely change people perception if they ever did it, which I don’t think they need to but it could be an option.