You’re going to take tier away

Community General Discussion
1

Dear blizzard,

Tier is a sacred thing to us. It’s been a sore spot in our sides this patch because of your vision of it. What I fear is that you have no idea how it went wrong and as a result you will most likely say “I told you so” and take it away again.

The reason why it failed is simple:

  1. it’s not a smoothing of a spec concept. It’s literally tied to almost 30% player power. Which creates a have and have not separation.

Look at the previous tier for inspiration on how to make them impactful yet not manditory to play the game.

  1. acquisition of it is terrible. Nothing about the current way to aquire it feels good. It’s more of a sense of relief when you get a piece, not excitement when you do.

You manifested stress with something good.

  1. they look pretty bad imo.

The art team killed the concept of where it came from but there are no “OMG” comments when you see someone in full tier. Check into what most people transmog it to to get an idea of what we like.

  1. Duplicate pieces in the vault. The RNG protection is creating more issues then solving them.

  2. It’s so powerful people are discriminated against in game for not having it. That’s not very good.

So in conclusion, don’t take tier away because you are looking at the negative reception of it. Please understand why it’s poorly received and solve that.

Thank you.

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100% happening.

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This is by far the biggest problem.

Something that has such a huge impact on player power should not be locked behind RNG.

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i enjoyed that increased power. It never bothers me that I get smoked by someone in a 4 piece tier because I know and understand why their damage is so much better. I will get there one day too.

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I think they look awesome.

And that’s a pretty lame bullet point if you ask me. “Heres where you guys went wrong, I think they look bad.”

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Blizzard almost always takes the wrong lessons when something fails, and I do worry tier will be the same way. It sounds like they may be experimenting with deterministic gear acquisition in 9.2.5 so I hope that’s a sign of experimenting rather than deciding to just drop it.

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Might want to take a step back.
Also speak for yourself , I have no problem with how tier is earned. Tier has always been a random drop. In addition, this will be the first time tier can be earned outside of the raids. Tier has almost always added significantly to player power.

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I’m not sure why they keep making the same mistakes over and over again.

This is the 3rd time they have tried and players have repeatedly the systems on release…and each time they have had to fix it by adding vendors.

RNG legendaries Legion
Corruption gear in BFA
And now SLs teir
(There are other examples that were less impactful)

They should either remove the RNG or make the systems less impactful

2 Likes
9

The only actual problem with tier is the fact the bonuses went from simple things like “increase the crit chance of X ability by 5%” for 2pc and for 4pc something like “and when X ability crits, gain Y stat for 10 seconds. Can only happen once every 1.5 minutes” to “hitting your already overpowered beserk ability also makes you pulse out insane amounts of damage with 0 thought or effort on your end and basically be at god tier levels while also being nigh-unkillable because you also got a broken AF legendary that let’s you stack a massive shield that, for some reason, also ignored healing reductions specifically designed to wreck tanks but not you because you’re special”

Tier should not make your spec either play radically different or be tied to such more power. If anything, that should have been reserved for the extra leggo.

Also people need to stop whining about tier acquisition. It went from only being available to raiders to being available in your weekly goodie box AND you can literally create it next week. NEVER has tier been this accessible.

Also while I was a super huge fan of corruptions, you can’t argue or fight against the fact it was WAY more RNG-dependent to get what you needed and the vendor was a huge improvement but STILL required waiting until the offerings changed and you got to buy what you wanted (not to mention how much grinding it took to save up to buy them)…oh and it took us longer to even GET the vendor to begin with.

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Because at the end of the day it’s about responsibility

The easiest way to avoid being responsible is to blame the players

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That’s great that you like them. I didn’t say everyone didn’t like them. Most I have heard from don’t think they look that amazing. I agree with them.

I am and my circle and the other thousands on the forums that advocated for tier. Maybe not you tho…

Significantly? I respectfully disagree. 30%? Never seen that before, and it’s most certainly not the norm.

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Tier is fine. Acquisition is what sucks.

Loosen trading restrictions and the catalyst should have been out a week ago.

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I know, you said imo. I even pointed that out. I don’t think your opinion (or mine for that matter) should have any bearing on how they can improve with the next tier set

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I know the gaming world isn’t regulated like other computer mediums (or at least I don’t think Blizzard has ever actually obtained any accreditation for quality management systems) but the auditor in me so badly wants to go to Blizzard to just see what is going on. There are so many red flags from the outside, including:
-Lack of proper project planning (no matter what Ion tries to say, there’s no chance that Shadowlands was meant to have only this number of patches, and WoD also had a content patch scrapped).

-Silo’ing groups (famously the difference between Stonetalon Garrosh and the main story Garrosh was due to the quest designers didn’t communicate with the story writers).

-Lying to their customers/false advertisement (an example being all of the Chronicles that were sold as a way to set the world of Azeroth straight and then later being stated it was “from the Titan’s perspective” instead).

Among other things. And that’s only what’s visible, so it’s just insane to me what goes on there and I would love to know.

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Well this is a lie, you could get tier from vendors as well (except classic)

Not the whole set, but at least you had some bad luck protection from the start

1 Like
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Having a discussion about Tier is good, but my concern is that a lot of threads (like this one) have a lot of stuff in them that’s not true.

So let’s go through some things.

First…

Tier in 9.2 is easier to get than it’s ever been.
Because… it is! Tier tokens drop in addition to regular loot (much like conduits do), which wasn’t the case for most of the past. In addition, the appearance of Tier in the Great Vault (although rarer than many would like) still makes Tier easier to get than ever before.

That’s just a fact. Can we just come together and acknowledge this is a fact? Because it is. Tier is easier to get than ever.

Now, having established that, what’s the problem, here?

Second…

Tier is more powerful than ever?
No. It’s not. There are many examples of equally powerful Tier throughout the game’s history. My favorite being the tank tier sets from Dragon Soul, but there are plenty of examples of HUGE bonuses from previous sets for DPS players and Healers, too.

So that’s not it.

So…

People Have Short Memories and Don’t Remember How Tier Used to Be

Well, that’s CERTAINLY true.

But moving on… what’s the actual problem here?

Here’s the problem:

Blizzard De-activated the Previous Tier’s Bonuses… and the Actual Big Danger is that Tier sets will be Seasonal from now on and get Turned Off at the end of each season

Because that’s the real threat.

TURNING OFF shard bonuses was an unprecedented move on Blizzard’s part. And a stupid one.

People aren’t mad that tier is slow (because it’s faster than ever) or that it’s too strong (because it’s just as strong as many prior tiers).

Tier used to work like this:

  • You went into a new tier with your old tier.
  • You gradually replaced old tier with new tier.
  • You went from 4p old tier, to 2p new / 2p old, to 4p new.

Here’s how Tier worked this time:

  • Your old bonuses were turned off.
  • You had to start from nothing.

This is also what makes current Tier SEEM like it’s more powerful than ever: because instead of going from bonus to bonus, we’re going from NOTHING to bonus. So it feels like a bigger jump because Blizzard made us start from square one.

Do I think they’re going to take Tier out, again?
No.

Do I think they’re going to turn off every Tier set at the end of each season, so we have to start from scratch again?
Yes, I’m very much afraid this is their plan.

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This is a very good point

The current tier sets wouldn’t be as large of a power increase if they would have left the shards active from the previous tier.

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It is not a good point.

Deactiving shards only “hurt” raiders really. Mythic+ people never got them so never “lost” them. They just started underpowered in their own content to start and certainly were disadvantaged if/when they opted to try raiding late in the tier.

He’s also wrong when he said “many” past tier sets were broken. The only one that jumps to my mind is indeed DS tier. The rest? They all had calmer bonuses. I don’t know of any site offhand that actually has them all readily available and comparable, but I definitely feel like the only truly comparable tier set power comparison is only DS itself…but of course there is quite a lot of ambiguity in what constitutes “powerful” so arguing the semantics is probably not worth the effort anyway. Of course tier only being available largely from raids too certainly benefitted raiders and their need for exclusivity but no that isn’t a factor, apparently…it’s asinine to think tier was more or less readily accessible back then compared to now…it’s CLEARLY more accessible right this moment and CERTAINLY will be in less than a week from now when everyone can start making it.

What Blizzard should have done was take the extra time to create identical looking tier sets but with bonuses aimed at the mode of content the tier piece came from. Raiding tier sets can have their stupid domination shards that put them head and shoulders above “pleb” mythic+ players in raids while mythic+ players should have bonuses that are better synergized with mythic+ content and/or the seasonal affix. In fact this half measure of tier sets that provide a bonus to both stats/abilities and a “seasonal” aspect would serve to soften the transitionary period to new seasons as well since the seasonal bonuses/effects would be worthless but you’d still have the other bonuses/stats to tie you over until you got new season ones.

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I can’t help but think you live in a bubble. If it were so easy to get then there wouldn’t be 20 threads a day about it. I can tell you from first hand experience that the same sample size of maybe 60 active players it’s incredibly difficult or “they felt lucky” to get it. Forums post after post leads me to believe that’s the truth, not what youve experienced.

Another troll? You think that a 30% increase to player power isn’t more powerful than ever?

Not trying to provoke you or anything, but wow man. I wanna play the game you have been playing!

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I addressed this in my post you’re replying to:

I also posted some facts and reasons why Tier is easier to get than ever.

Where are yours?