No it doesnt. Its damage output would feel better because other things play a role than just one ability. Havoc top contributing damage ability makes up only 15% of the overall damage while Obliterate makes up ohhhh… 45-50% of Obliterations damage. There was only 1 Ability that hits harder than Obliterate and most things make up from 9-5% of your overall DPS for Havoc.
Obliteration has a problem that you want to exacerbate because you think the solution is pump more damage into Obliterate and to do this they would have to take damage out of things that actually do noodle damage.
So really Frost would benefit more from consistent damage using Havoc as a comparison and people thinging things feel better to push with that design. So remove the damage from Obliterate and put it in the rest of the kit.
That’s because Obliteration has like 4 damaging abilities to Demon Hunters 8-9, so of course their bread and butter core spender buffed ability is going to be 45-50% of their damage. That’s the entire point of the talent.
For being a builder it hits pretty hard, especially being spammable one.
There’s 0 setup in the spec at all to justify Obliterate hitting harder, so why should it hit harder than Frost Strike, which actually requires something to use? Ridiculous.
What? You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.
If Obliteration has 4 abilities it pushes then each of those abilities could contribute 25% each but it doesnt. That would do what havoc does where each of those 8-9 abilities are really close in damage contribution and they all feel impactful.
Obliterate on the other hand does so much damage that it makes up more contribution than the next 5 damage sources combined with Obliteration.
Even Wrath had a better damage spread being 31%, 26%, then 14% instead of the absolutely insane spread we are seeing now with 46%, 10%, 9%. Obliterate is doing an astronomical amount of work and damage for Obliteration. Its fine if rune based abilities do more damage than RP based ones, but that gulf is just bad for the spec. Period.
Wow you are terrible at design. That’s literally the whole point of Obliteration. You’re trading damage buffs to other abilities and other sources of damage to buff Obliterate to hit as hard as possible. It’s functioning as intended. Who freaking cares if the spread isn’t even. That defeats the entire point of the talent.
i don’t really remember obliterate being the big hitter for frost, i think that was diseaseless blood. 2h frost had it’s moment in 3.1 with the sigil from 25 man XT-002, at the time frost strike couldn’t be dodged, blocked, or parried, and being magic, it ignored armor. you could just delete players with RP dumps, even tanks.
i don’t really even do arena that often, but the devs only balance around 3s so if you want to make an argument, it has to be through the lense of arena.
look at the current hunter plague in bgs, because it doesn’t affect arena, the devs don’t see it.
Almost everything in Wrath could 1 shot. Prot Warriors could almost 1 shot rogues without using a singular ability, then there was the ArpCrit t10 2pc prot warrior insanity, Deathchill Frost, RP pooling Blood for Death Strike (which still needed diseases for healing and you lose damage everywhere else if you went diseaseless), Demo Soul Fire (especially in cata with Soulburn and Moonwell Chalise) Arms Warrior, Prot Pally with stacked haste for big HotR because HotR damage scales with haste.
It was the era of the “Swifty 1 shot macro” and right now in Classic Wrath pvp is basically dead.
They are talking about Death Strike which didnt need diseases to do its damage, but you were going to be squishy without diseases on the target because without them Death Strike would heal for 0, and you needed to stack up your Runic Power from the glyph, have armor pen coming out of your ears, and still do less damage than Obliterate with DW.
In fact, Frost (with DW) is hitting about 10k higher with Obliterate than RP stacked Death Strikes WITH Shadowmourne. Thats with Hysteria (Unholy Frenzy) which is a 20% physical damage increase.
Honestly I wouldn’t mind investing more resources into bigger obliterate hits. If they wanted to get rid of Obliteration and give me the ability to spend resources to buff obliterate I would be perfectly ok with that, provided it hits hard enough to justify spending those resources.
Pretty much. Diseaseless Blood used Oblit until late wrath when they made the Death Strike changes which is what is currently in Classic Wrath.
You could do some pretty appreciable damage, wasn’t top level but definitely upper middle of the pack. If you look at the way the inputs and itemization was laid out, 2h Frost is pretty much just where they shoved the playstyle of Blood DPS in Cata. Especially when you look at the late Cata Master-Frost and machine gun Icy Touch builds.
diseaseless blood was an early build that was finally killed off in balance updates in 3.1 along with 32/39. though it was initially nerfed in 3.0.8. i didn’t fiddle around with this build very much but iirc the key trait was that DRW would mimic army, giving you 16 ghouls.
DK is actually a perfect example of why classic isn’t vanilla, the original wrath had constant balance updates and massive shifts and changes to how DK was played as well as how our talents were arranged every patch the entire expansion. the final 3.3.3 builds are what was used in classic, so no original diseaseless blood or shadowfrost builds could be made in classic.
hasn’t stopped a lot of people making assumptions about how the game was back then based on their experience of classic today.
If anything, DKs need a rework to function well in M+ / PvP. Relying on everything to stand in DND just does not work well in either of these settings.
In terms of raw damage numbers, we’re actually pretty good rn. Said damage is just really clunky outside of a raid setting, which limits how much of it actually goes off and requires groups to play around us too much.
You keep saying this nonsense, but you still wouldnt play diseaseless. Obliterate wanted diseases on the target, Heart Strike wanted diseases on the target, Death Strike wanted diseases on the target even prior to 3.2.
No it didnt.
No they didnt. Icy Touch never did more damage than HB and HB became a 1 rune ability in cata pre-patch. People were spamming Icy Touch in ICC because of the threat change they made with it and it just did an insane amount of threat when in Frost Presence. It was never spammed for DPS.
HB was spammed because of mastery being what we have right now, it becoming a 1 rune ability with no CD, but Masterfrost wasnt worth it until WoD. That is what Masterfrost is and it was garbage. No one liked removing half of a spec for some mindless spam and forcing Death and Frost Runes.
Diseaseless Blood never existed. Not to mention the talents didnt change around until 3.2, not 3.1 and the HB / Gargoyle build didnt die in 3.1, again thats 3.2 when both of these talents were moved to the final row so you couldnt get them up.
Truthfully, you cant be trusted with your “DW Blood blood worms” nonsense and your “Unholy DW Blood Caked Blade” thing as well.
The only reason… ONLY reason, anyone would play diseaseless back then is because they were lazy. Like Frost without Blood Plague was a thing but only for 1 reason, because people were lazy and just swapped out the glyph for pestilence to spread diseases for HB to apply FF. It was significantly less damage for easier play. If anyone did play diseaseless blood it was because they didnt want to get Annihilation that stopped Obliterate from consuming diseases. So people just did the lazy thing and went off of the increased crit damage for Obliterate from Might of Mograine.
You were limited to 4 blood worms, Blood-caked Blade didnt do massive damage with DW Unholy (which there is DW unholy currently but its all for gargoyle.