I agree that a few wipes (before the first boss) will make the average elitist leave the group, disconnect or afk.
I’ve seen it happen.
I’ve seen toxic healers completely flip out and have a meltdown when a tank/dps makes an error and pulls additional mobs. Or missing an interrupt. Followed up by leaving/disconnecting/afking.
My caveat is that, (without key depletion) if a toxic elitist sees a player doing less damage than some contrived number they have in their head, they’ll kick them without bricking the key.
So the flask, potion, food, oil and augment rune (consumables) that the hapless player popped for the run would be wasted if they don’t meet the toxic elitist’s expectations.
Basically, the first few pulls would be an audition for the non-keyholders and things could spiral around the toilet quickly as the gatekeeper keyholder kicks player after player without repercussion.
Most key holders are already making this decision before inviting based on ilvl, spec, overall M+ score and individual dungeon score. My way doesn’t change this, if anything it should allow more people to get invited because it wouldn’t mean bricking a key unless you get the first boss down. If you have someone punching above their pay grade, great, or, as I’ve also seen, if you have people that were carried for score this allows you to pick them out without depletion.
Consumables are consumables and frankly a weak argument. The consumables are cheap to obtain.
Again, it’s their time. The same time wasted if a non-keyholder drops and bricks a key now.
I would just feel badly for the people who joined in good faith. Popped consumables and get removed because the tank overpulled or a kick was missed or whatever.
Their time would be wasted too.
And the others in the group. Their time would be wasted as the gatekeeper keeps fishing for something better.
I acknowledge groups mainly fall apart before the first boss and key depletion sucks but I am loathe to allow a toxic player to have that kind of power over others.
There has to be some kind of safety net.
Maybe that’s true for me and you. But not everyone has over five million gold like us.
Not to mention that it’s not cool for an elitist to not only waste your time but waste your gold, too.
A “few” wipes before the first boss is a terrible sign and I would leave that with no remorse. 1 wipe I’ll give it another chance. Most dungeons are only a few pulls from the first boss to begin with.
I’ve only left 3 keys this season. 2 of them were my own. I don’t think you actually know what type of person I am. A few means more than 2. More than 3+ wipes before the first boss means you are likely looking at an hour+ run when it should take 30 minutes. That is a full on carry.
I am, I bring people to keys based on their RIO and run history. Don’t have the experience? Not inviting you. Nothing wrong with that.
I’ll take the commend, but still contend that you still don’t really know what type of person I am. I’ve run with several people I met on the forums and they stuck around for more. /shrug.
I also see, on a regular basis, people who are broke for… some reason? So they have not learned how to make gold in a sustainable fashion?
It blows my mind too; considering how gold practically rains from the sky. But I have my bruto and I’m sure you’ve got yours, too. And a lot of people don’t have one.
Honestly, as someone very against key depletion, I really think this one is it. There are way too many variables to have keys be a 1 and done thing. But if you fail 3 times you are either EXTREMELY unlucky or thats on you.
Until the issue of bad/underperforming/incompetent players is addressed, there will be no “solution” to the issue of people leaving pug groups - people will just keep leaving said bad groups regardless (to save themselves the time/frustration/repair bills/etc). Without addressing the underlying root cause of the problem (bad players), nothing will ever change.
…this “HYPER laser-focus” from GD’ers on the symptoms (people leaving a random pug group) rather than the root-cause (bad/incompetent players) is amusing to watch though
I think Asmon is a fool a lot of the time, but he said it well - when players get mad, they don’t think rationally, they just want the closest thing to them to be blown up.
Key leavers isn’t the real problem. The problem for most of GD is that they play DPS and it takes them a long time to find another group. They never want to list their key because they’re afraid it will be bricked. If more DPS could list their key without fear, it would solve the problem more effectively than trying to ban people from leaving keys.
I’d have a grace period, like 5 min or first boss down, just for situations like people going for a streets run and getting a gambit key or something, but I’d also take that grace period having only 3 times as well.
Might be a good idea for the vault key, but keys at the end of dungeons should be specific dungeons to avoid running the same one over and over just for vault.
I’d not revert them, but make it so the achievement requires the timed score of a certain level across all keys, like how it was in season 2. An untimed 12 is likely still worth more then a timed 4, and untimed 20+ are still going to be worth more then timed 15-. This is just to avoid situations like "my score is higher then player x as I have been doing higher keys yet because all mine are untimed, and theirs are timed, they got the acivement and I did not?
Another possibility is splitting the rules for depletion, up to 15 key does not deplete, 16 and up (where the ilvl is frozen at 15 for rewards) since it is based on skill more and more, the depletion happens, maybe as a way of telling certain players they are in over their heads.
