There are clearly multiple sides of the M+ key depletion and leaver argument. Like in politics, there are two extreme sides. One side wants never depleting keys while the other wants it to remain as is.
Blizzard choosing one side or the other will result in the continued fractionation of the community. We need to be realistic and come to a middle ground; compromise. A solution that will benefit the most and not just you personally or the people you know.
-Key Level: 3 Charges per key from M+2 through +20; Depletion stops for keys +21 and above since all achievements have been obtained. If you have a +15, you can attempt that key level 3 times. If you beat the key then it regains the charges and levels up as normal.
-Key Dungeon: Make keys usable in 2 or 3 random dungeons. Like set-item tokens it would say HoA, PF, or Streets. Or any other combination.
-Revert Achievements to require timed runs now that Keys have 3 charges.
I’ve been vocal about being against punishments and never-depleting keys. However, I think these are middle ground shifts that many can compromise to.
-Edit:
Removed commendation system
Updated Key being usable in 2 or 3 random dungeons
Updated Key depletion having 3 charges per key up to +20. Keys +21 and above no longer deplete
Source? I highly doubt 90% of depletions happen before the first boss.
That is simply too easy to exploit. If keys never deplete as long as first boss isn’t dead, the key holder can kick people, replace them, and start over as many times as they want before actually “committing” to the run. Same with tanks if they don’t like the route. Or is 1 person died to an avoidable. You are not compromising. The 3 charge key is fair.
No source, just personal observation in pugs. That’s why I said “I would bet…”
Again, no exploit with my method. You’re only wasting time. If groups want to reset, retool or replace members, so what? That’s their time. If they still don’t time it or they kill a boss and the group falls apart then it depletes. Again, their time.
If I read this correctly this sounds a lot like another Raider IO addon. A commendation system doesn’t work as we can see with the boosting community and what that did.
I’m pretty sure 1 of 2 things is going to happen if action was taken. 1) they change how the keystones deplete for leavers/failed timers.
2) they make it a punishable offense for wasting peoples time.
It was easier to put together groups in vanilla/ wrath than what is now. And I mean competent players, what type of players I run across now are extremely self entitled and the willingness to not learn content.
TLDR; you can’t fix a addon that’s already being intergraded and being abused. And you sure as hell can’t fix the community unless you’re talking about extreme punishments.
So what? It’s their key. On one hand you want to compromise a solution that allows success of a keyholder but you don’t want them to optimize the group to do so? Sounds like you’re telling keyholders how to use their time they paid for and play the way you want them to play.
My observation still holds: Pug groups fall apart after too many wipes on trash to the first boss or after wipes on the first boss. If the first boss is killed and then it falls apart the key should deplete.
I’ve seen this many times. For example a few weeks ago I was looking for a Streets group in Group Finder because I needed it for Fortified. Found a +15. Group starts up and it’s a Gambit key. 2 people drop, key depletes. I drop and requeue into more Streets groups. Get into the same group, they had changed the group lead, Gambit again. Group falls apart. Get into another group, different this time, Gambit, falls apart. Now I’m not sure if that was just a bug with the keys since it was a mega dungeon but bug or not with Season 4 largely made up of mega dungeons, that doesn’t sound like a fun time.
What happens if you fail that key but complete it.
Does it go to a 14, or simply deplete one charge.
I kinda like this, but I’m not real sure how it helps. Kinda encourages spamming the easiest key for vault progress if you don’t care about IO though.
If any other game that has a similar system is an indication of this, it’ll basically be a “do you play tank or healer” score.
Overwatch commendations are a perfect example where the only people who ever max out the honor system are hardcore Tank/Healer mains.
No thanks. One of the few good things about keys is that they “encourage” engaging with diverse types of content.
In fact, if I were to redesign M+ for more freedom, I would “encourage” players to run each different dungeon in order to fill Vault. Let’s say you would need to run 1 / 3 / 6 “unique” dungeons - running the same dungeon twice doesn’t count towards Vault. Only then would I consider unlocking players to roam freely.
Lower-end players / “Vault Fillers” as I call them engage in degenerate behavior, heck the fact that they play content they don’t like is already degenerate behavior but if they’re going to play M+ at least we should try to create a path to the rewards that maybe causes them to have more fun rather than spamming one as part of some path of least resistance.
Also add Dinars to M+ so people who really don’t like M+ and just want Phial or whatever can get their Dinar after engaging in some amount of M+, buy the trinket, upgrade it with JP and then VP (bring back Justice Points), and then be done with it.
Hmmm. Probably make leavers way more prevalent once people start caring about IO when completing a failed key will be seen as a “punishment” compared to simply dipping.
Ok, so you don’t think the same would also happen with your 3 charge system? It’s just overly complicated. Honestly most group invite decisions will be made before the first run anyway based on seasonal/dungeon score and ilvl.
I never said 90% fail on first boss. I said they fail before that. Most leavers base a run on the first few trash pulls. If there is a wipe or wipes on the way to the first boss, people bail once they determine time will not be achieved.
You can believe or not, it happened. If it was a bug then hopefully it’s something they fix before Season 4.
You’re funny, funny man. You say I won’t compromise but I offered a very simple solution and you won’t compromise. You’re funny.
I agree the system overall still has opportunity for improvement. With that said I’ve done more m+ this exp than any other and have really really enjoyed the experience.
Dungeons have always been my favorite part of the game.
They get 3 attempts. They could kick and replace, but only twice. With your proposed system, they could do it countless times. As soon as the run starts if they don’t like someone’s dps numbers or tank route - unlimited kick and replace.
How are 3 charges overly complicated? I think you severely underestimate people’s intelligence.
Except they don’t. Like I said if you are basing this on pure anecdote and personal experience, my 700 runs trump yours.
We are in the same boat. I have loved M+ this expansion and is the only reason I still log on.
