The original vision for Vanilla WoW was something that a player who had no job could raid or do pre-raid activities every hour of every day. He is John Classic as much as I hate to admit it, and that was his vision of the game, and if Classic+ is supposed to carry the spirit of Vanilla, then the truth is that the newest raid content isn’t for everyone. If you want LFR, Retail has an LFR difficulty. SE is not supposed to cater to those who struggle in LFR difficulty until they have 10 stacks of determination. It’s just not.
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“all of you are wrong because of one employees opinions I may or may not be interpreting correctly from 20 years ago”
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All of that kind of went out of the door by the time they made AQ and Naxx, no?
SE, a SoD raid, has a lower clear rate than the current retail raid on heroic difficulty. Ahead of the Curve raiding in retail should be way harder than a raid in SoD, not the other way around.
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The raid is definitely overtuned, but a lot of SoD players are absolutely terrible at the game
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SoD players being bad at the game was never in question to be fair. Also to be fair “terrible at the game” is debatable. You take your average SoD player and compare them to a “good” player from 20 years ago and they probably make that “good” player look terrible in comparison.
Sure, and now there’s that same gap in skill going from SoD Naxx HM0-3 to SE, where your average SoD gamer can’t handle dodging a boss mechanic while attempting to click his abilities.
Should it? I don’t see why that must be the case.
Yes, because SoD raids are the “normal” difficulty. If the “normal” difficulty of a SoD raid is far harder than the heroic difficulty of retail then something is clearly wrong. Lots of people play SoD because they don’t want to struggle through raids as if they’re playing retail. I’m already wiping to mythic Stix in retail, I don’t want to log into SoD and zone into SE to bash my head against a boss for 4 hours with 30+ people in a raid supposedly tuned for 20 people.
To be clear, heroic is the normal difficulty of Retail, if by normal you mean default/standard.
defending clearly overtuned design is a bit silly dont ya think?
its so overtuned in fact that the “relief valve” to manually turn down the difficulty by bringing more and more players up to 40 is still hard enough to require people of quite a bit above avg skill to even get close to competing.
its too much and you know it.
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I don’t think the first five bosses are overtuned anymore. They’re not clearly overtuned at all.
Council is a different beast and Blizzard’s angle seems to be to allow the content to be nerfed by gear.
Even by this standard more people clearing heroic LoU than SE means the tuning of SE is far too high. People playing SoD don’t want retail raid difficulty.
dragon is overtuned for alot of guilds.
did some pulls on counsel and can say its overtuned directly.
lillian and last boss will be as well.
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No it’s not. I already know they are simply not pulling whelps onto boss because I’ve seen two different dad raids make the same mistake. It literally goes from hitting enrage to multiple minutes ahead of tanks stack adds on boss and you kill only one whelp before swapping back to boss.
heh call it what you like.
the last 3 at least are overtuned on enrage timers or fight mechanics or both.
still doesnt nullify my argument.
if people bring enough to the raid they should clear it . they are already penalized on loot being low amounts dropping.
And yes, doing mechanics properly is part of raiding.
Some people seem to think “vaguely aware of mechanic existing” means you are playing the mechanic correctly and it doesn’t.
Nope. Nope nope nope. I’ve seen 40 mans fail AQ40. 40 mans can fail SE too.
Sorry but 40 man isn’t an instant I win button.
lol.
a 20 man raid should be tuned for 20 slightly above avg people.
bringing 40 people (which is double the amount) should make it ez for regularly above avg people and it clearly is not.
you can call it what you like but it is a failure in design to be so tightly tuned and is only there to milk the lifetime of the raid and nothing else.
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The raid is not supposed to have been beaten yet by the overwhelming majority of guilds and players.
I just want that to be clear to you, okay? If you can’t agree with that statement, you are not in alignment with the view of what the SoD team wants for SE.
This raid is intended to be cleared after 6-8 weeks of progression. Even sweatier 20-mans are not supposed to have breached Council yet (and the guilds that have beaten it have gotten there somewhat deep into the enrage timer). Council is very intentionally a wall that we are not supposed to pass until we’ve had several weeks of gear to help us push the numbers.
If your dad guild has less skill, even if you bring 30 people you should still be 5/8. And that’s where many dad groups are. It’s going according to Keikaku. The only outlier in this whole thing has been Beatrix.
like i said. they are milking the raid for all the time they can and not being fair to their playerbase.
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