We’ve discussed this in other threads, Drah.
If WoW goes down the same road, even if they turn against the Naaru, humans, or Draenei or someone else will choose to become Naaru 2.0
Would love to see the humans get their own WoD. The entitlement of alliance having fun while killing Orcs must stop.
What is the relevance to anything at all in this thread Erevien? Orcs or the Horde weren’t mentioned once.
Thadeus is offended by the mere idea that light users could be evil. Their main source of followers is Humans.
What? When did he say that in this thread? I don’t care about forum drama. Why not engage with what’s actually in the thread instead of insanely rambling about something that has literally nothing to do with the thread. Also we’ve had evil light users since vanilla with the Scarlet Crusade and I’m pretty sure he doesn’t have an issue with that groups existence as villains.
pretty sure you say?
As someone who has chatted with Thad over the past few months… if not years… yeah, he has issues with them, too.
I would let him delve further into it with you if he desires. But suffice it to say - don’t be so sure.
Okay, sorry I don’t keep track of the opinions of people on the forums I guess. That still doesn’t change the fact that a thread about Xe’ra or Illidan being more immoral has nothing to do with the faction war or humans.
On that….
People have explained it, in many ways. I will shed my light on it.
Everything everyone else said aside, one thing I consider is that we know very little about Xera, while we know a lot of Illidan’s life story. Xera herself filled in some gaps, as we quested for her. Illidan has a book. We know who he is and what he is about, and we know what he has done.
Xera is an enigma. The most we have is educated guesses from Khadgar and Velen. Why are there no other Naaru with Xera - Adal had some homies with him. Did she leave the Naaru Order? Was she expelled?
If we talked to Adal about a “Lightmother” would he say :
“what the heck is that? Reminds me of same crazy broad I used to know named Xera. She called herself that. She flipped out after Naaru College Graduation, and we never saw her again.”
Basically, we know a sliver of the details of Xera, and the little we do know is not good. So comparisons like yours seem a bit off. You are comparing everything we know about Illidan to the very little we know about Xera.
And even Velen didn’t seem particularly fussed about Illidan blowing Xera up. He goes on commiserating with Illidan like nothing happened.
Wasn’t she the prime Naaru which explains her status as leader of the army of the light?
I hear that from guesses from Khadgar and Velen. But it doesn’t seem certain to me. I haven’t seen any other Naaru interact with her, to show any sort of relationship. I find it curious that no other Naaru has recognized her existence. And I wonder what they would have to say about it.
I saw it presented as an attempt at understanding with incomplete information on the part of the characters giving exposition.
There are questions that remain about all that. Gamepedia seems to take care to say “allegedly” , as if there is not certitude. She didn’t tell the Army of the Light about certain things, like Naaru falling to the Void - meaning Xera would withhold information, possibly even lie, if it suited her.
Yeah. The fact that she withheld information, was fanatically inflexible, and isolated her followers from the other Naaru kind of makes it look like she was being set up to eventually be revealed as an antagonist.
My personal theory that I can never prove unless a writer says something about the behind the scenes process is that Illidan had always been intended to reject Xe’ra’s gift. But originally that was just going to anger her in some way and lead to a confrontation with her as a antagonistic zealot Naaru. But when the playerbase received her coldly they pivoted to Illidan just making her explode instead. Not provable, but all the pieces were there to make a story like that happen.
The Vindicaar did have that conveniently Naaru-powered furnace after all
Wrong. For one, I was gladly helping wipe out the Scarlet Crusade in Legion with my DK main.
I never said that. I’ve only opposed when it’s poorly written (eg; Yrel and co in AU Draenor) and called out when people claim headcanon as fact. I don’t mind the Scarlet Crusade, the villainous Light users who served Kael’thas in Burnng Crusade, Archbishop Benedictus being a villain in Cata…
My only issues with them are how badly written and overused they are and double standards about who has a worse between them and the Forsaken, not their existence as villains. Understand?
Nothing indicates she isolated them from other Naaru deliberately. That’s just a fan theory at this point (especially since it opens the plot holes of “why didn’t Xe’ra tell the other Naaru to not kill Illidan” or “why didn’t the other Naaru tell her Illidan deserved to die?”)
And she compromised with Turalyon and Lothraxion about Alleria despite Alleria breaking a rule about Void use on Xe’ra’s own ship (how dare Xe’ra make rules on what is and isn’t allowed in a place she owns lol). That sounds like flexibility to me.
And if she’s so fanatical about the Light, why allow members to use Arcane magic like Y’mera?
I think you dislike Xe’ra more than you admit.
I mean, if you want to call not executing Turalyon’s wife and just imprisoning her forever “flexible compromise” then sure. That’s the kind of flexibility that tyrants tend to have.
You’re even admitting it right here. She owns the ship. She’s the authority, therefore her rules are absolute and unquestionable. That’s authoritarian logic right there. Move pieces that could lead to building her up to be an antagonist.
Pointing stuff like that out doesn’t mean I like or dislike her, it’s weird that you keep insisting that I have a strong opinion there when I’ve made it clear I just found her kind of dull. (And really, as a villain she would have served more to just be a catalyst for arcs of other characters, which could have been neat.)
You called her inflexible and I explained how that’s wrong.
How is it authoritarian to make rules in a place you own? Are governments authoritarian for making laws? Is it authoritarian for ships to have captains? Are you authoritarian in your home because you decide who is and isn’t allowed in?
You claim to not dislike Xe’ra, but you’re quick to assume the worst of her and use loaded or emotionally charged terms to describe her (eg; “the kind of flexibility that tyrants tend to have”). Since you admitted to a love of edgelord content, a character who opposes that will likely get on your bad side. Methinks you doth protest too much.
The laws that a government makes are, ideally, in a democratic government anyway - formed through the consent of the governed. When laws are declared by fiat by a single individual in power, we call that a dictatorship.
As for ships captains, they are authorities on their ships. But they’re still subject to maritime law. If the captain of a cargo ship decided to say, execute a stowaway, they’d still be convicted of a murder (today anyway, the age of sailing was different). And the one about private houses is a silly comparison.
Xe’ra is definitionally an authoritarian because she has declared herself the highest authority and makes all the rules, values strict obedience to the rules she makes, and enforces them through the use of force. She could have run her Army Of Light like a democracy, or even acted as an advisor like most other Naaru do, but she didn’t.
And just to be clear, Illidan as the Lord Of Outland was also an authoritarian. So it’s not like that’s even a reason for me to dislike a character.
How are houses a silly comparison? The Xenedar is Xe’ra’s home, if she has one.
Xe’ra’s only the highest authority on her own ship and among a group she made from volunteers who are allowed to question or challenge her decisions. That doesn’t make her authoritarian.
Considering people are allowed to question or challenge her decisions, can draw on arcane magic and we don’t see any other rules besides “worship the Light” and “no Void or Fel”, calling her strict is a stretch at best.
Xe’ra’s running an army fighting demons literally trying to destroy the universe. If you know anyone in the army, would you call their CO’s authoritarian? If you’re in the army, would you call all your CO’s authoritarian?
“Authoritarian”; You keep using that word. I don’t think it means what you think it means.
If you dislike Xe’ra, fine. But be honest about it and no double standards, please.
I don’t in this case, but the net effect is the same: it’s not front and center in the minds of players.
My point is that if players aren’t making a bigger fuss over things that happened in Outland, it’s just as reasonable to assume they simply forgot as to assume they remember and don’t care.
Saying one of her rules is “you have to follow this religion” isn’t really helping her case. It’s not like anyone was allowed to question her rules about no void or no fel.
As for militaries, it depends. Is the military in question ultimately answerable to a civilian government? (Potentially) not authoritarian. Are they the military of an authoritarian state? Authoritarian. And militaries in general value obidience and adherence to the chain of command in order to function. It’s a matter of degrees - for example, Starfleet is a more authoritarian organization than The Federation. But the Dominion is more authoritarian than Starfleet.
Xe’ra is the highest authority, so how she runs things is the character of her entire organization.
By the time the gift cutscene happened people were so sick of the Xe’ra questline they’d probably have cheered if she’d died as an accident. You can only do so much “behold how Illidan did nothing wrong ever once in his life” before people get annoyed at it, even if yes he got the kill.