Everyone was new to the game at some point, and we all had to learn how to look for groups, or to form them ourselves. Effectively removing that aspect of the game isn’t going to make the experience more wholesome for new players or old.
What would help them while they’re learning is to form more groups without stringent gear/class requirements. Spoon-feeding the game to new players is going to create more problems than it solves.
Living a fairy dream. I don’t need to keep arguing cause you vocal minority already ruined it for everyone else. If they put in a voting system for changes, LFD would 100% exist.
It’s pretty well established that they artificially inflate queues to entice people into paying.
Again… Why do you think they disabled /who? That literally says everything…
You’re just upset and arguing to argue. Go take a nap.
Their server caps are rumored to be 8k. They do inflate, but i do not know their algorithm offhand.
Source: A server owner who claimed to be on warmanes staff as a resume.
Gotta take with a grain of salt since Pserver staffs are hidden behind monikers.
It’s possible that could be true, but that even then it wouldn’t mean it’s a good game design philosophy. Let’s remember that the point of classic isn’t to appease the majority, it’s to faithfully recreated the experiences the game offered in its early life.
Now that we’re finally reaching the fork in the road where many people feel WoW went down the path to Retail, they’re bound to start making some design philosophy decisions that will inherently change the experience from it’s original state.
Established by who? Is there proof, or just conjecture?
And even if the numbers are inflated, that doesn’t change the absolute fact that the private server community has been enormous for over a decade. Nostalrius had over a million monthly players as another example. Why you’re trying to minimize the popularity of private servers is beyond me.
What portion of the “WoW Team” thinks LFD is bad? Have you played any private servers where LFD is live? Its a godsend. Being able to find a group while leveling instead of focusing SOLELY on finding a group is a burden-remover. Now instead of either finding a boost or spending 45 minutes putting a group together i can just go level where I want and join the group when it pops. Who loses? The one guy that likes spending 3 hours finding a group for a dungeon nobody runs cuz it’s in the middle of nowhere?
Not a lot of people running SFK/RFK/RFD these days on alliance. Not many horde in stockades.
Nobody loses from LFD except people that like to hate things just for the sake of hate.
What you are still failing to understand is that for more people than not LFD was a net improvement to their experience. Why? Because it addresses some very real problems that existed back then and exist today in classic.
And there’s two major problems with the statement that classic isn’t supposed to appease the majority. First blizzard has made multiple changes already specifically to appease the majority(cough same faction BG’s). Second if the purpose of classic is to be a faithful recreation that includes LFD for wrath.
Trolls are gonna troll, so don’t try to make sense of forum posters arguing against LFD. We know why they do that. Bots and boosters and the gdkp crowd also fight for its removal. But really the only ones who matter are the Classic devs. And I don’t know wtf they’re thinking.
Either they live in this tiny bubble where they have no concept of what the vast majority of players want or need…or they’re just really worried about losng boost sales. Because there’s no angle from which dungeon finder doesn’t make Wrath Classic more popular and successful. They really are sabotaging their own game.
Who said the point of classic is to recreate the game faithfully? #1 that isn’t true. Most people (the majority you dislike) didn’t want OG classic but a version of classic that had the best retail offered with all of classic content.
I can be in love with a '77 Stingray and STILL want AC in my car. Doesn’t mean i don’t like classic cars.
If people want a classic experience they are few and far between. The LFD tool doesn’t negatively effect anyone and makes the game more playable for new players. Who loses? People that hate things just to be hateful?
A whole lot wrong with this post.
PRetty much yes, there’s a certain group of people who are just controls freaks and get upset when people don’t play the game the way they have deemed “correct” even when it doesn’t hurt them.
Yep.
A wall I hit in trying to do RBG in retail.
Make your own group!
Did that.
Get a bite. so…what’s the plan when rest show up?
Well…you see…i’ve never done even 1 rated. Like ever. I got me the finest 7/7 plain ole honor gear as well. so the plan is some people who know wth they are doing with some conquest gear shows up.
Not looking for a carry mind you…but its what its going be really really similar too until I get my feet wet and better gear.
Okay…well, good luck with that. Drops…
The leader of the WoW team, Brian Birmingham, has stated that the issue has been divisive among his team. He didn’t specifically state how many people were for and against it, but there was definitely some discourse over it.
I have.
It certainly is convenient, I don’t think anyone would disagree with that.
You can find groups while questing right now. Especially if you form your own groups. Nothing is stopping you from hitting a macro that sends a message to LFG chat, whether you’re LFG or LFM.
I’ve personally run Shadowfang Keep, Razorfen Kraul, Razorfen Downs and Scarlet Monastery quite a lot while leveling all of my characters. If you’re noticing a sharp decline in how often those are run, it’s most likely because people would rather pay for dungeon carries than to actually play the game.
Also, Stockades for Horde and Ragefire Chasm for Alliance don’t really have any place in this conversation – It might be a cool little upside to dungeon finder, but neither of them were ever intended to be run by both factions. The fact that people effectively can’t run them now isn’t a “problem”, it’s “working as intended”.
You keep displaying that you don’t understand the people who disagree with you, which is troubling. We don’t just “hate it to hate it”. Many of us see a pretty long list of reasons why dungeon finder has been very negative for the WoW experience.
I don’t fail to understand that at all. I get that it was a useful tool that provided a lot of convenience for many players and that even made dungeon runs possible for people on dead realms. I don’t know what I’ve said that could possibly make you think I don’t understand that. I’ve probably stated it explicitly more times than I can count on my fingers to you alone since this discussion started happening here.
You’re right about that, and I think that was a huge mistake. Though it doesn’t seem like it was a decision made with the intent of making the game itself better. I think they buckled under pressure because they thought this might start to hurt their bottom line. It doesn’t take a genius to see that same-faction battlegrounds only props up and supplements faction imbalance.
It may end up reaching that point again over dungeon finder, but it would take an overwhelming number of people angry over this to really scare Blizzard into thinking that this will lose them money. Whether it will happen remains to be seen.
Anyway, none of this changes the reason why Classic exists in the first place. Just because they’ve made a few decisions that don’t align with the primary goal, it doesn’t mean that primary goal doesn’t exist anymore.
It depends on the definition of ‘faithful’ here. Obviously we’re way past the point where that definition is “perfect parity”. At this point, the idea of a faithful recreation is just to offer roughly the same experience, even if that means making some changes to achieve it.
Look at the Drums of War, for example. They changed that item because a new meta developed over the last decade and it would’ve required that 20/25 people, even in fairly casual raids, would have to roll Leatherworking. They made a change to the original game to preserve the original experience.
The world buff meta is proof that changing nothing leads to a very different experience, and the devs themselves explicitly stated that this is the reason why they decided to start making adjustments to the game.
Just pointing out that LFD was not frivolously added for giggles, which is of course why people want it today.
I think your estimates are high, but I acknowledge that I’m speaking from a position of privilege on the issue. When I was tanking or in a group with my brothers - we didn’t put up with that nonsense. We helped people as much as possible and when someone either didn’t respond or seemed resistant to helpful guidance - we just didn’t continue spamming dungeons with that person.
Percentage-wise I’m pretty sure I saw more toxicity pre-RDF than post. No one is as abusive out in the world as someone with a secured raid spot. Because they can behave as badly as they like and there will be no consequences even when you do see them again.
Rob Pardo did an interview in 2009 right before dungeon finder was added that he wished it had been in since launch and had been trying since the very beginning.
It wasn’t some spur of the moment addition. The lead designer from Vanilla wanted it all the way from the start.
I don’t think it was.
I have to wonder what those same devs think today. They couldn’t have known all of the problems they were going to unleash into WoW and onto the community when they implemented it. Only years of seeing it in use could tell us the full story. Of course the devs at that time believed in the direction they were going.
You keep saying list of problems. But i don’t see them.
-It did not affect the “social aspect” it just removed the need to spam “LFM” for 30-120 minutes.
-It did not affect “reputation” of servers. As we see clearly reputation does not matter. Someone screams in chat about Ninja Looting, and everyone tells them to be quiet. No one cares.
-It literally removed a ton of problems with the social structure of WoW.
I feel like the guy who said “it killed the social aspect” is similar to the dude on the server who yells “dead server” and people blindly listen.
player interaction in the RDF and LFR systems has pretty much always been toxic
this is pretty well established, and one of the main reasons many, many players dislike using these systems.
if you’re tossed into a group with random, cross-realm players, whom you will never meet again, players treat each other as expendable and a nuisance.
I’ve had one bad moment like that in over ten years and thousands of runs. Although I tend to keep my mouth shut and know what I’m doing. But I mostly do that in guild groups too.