WQs made LFR pointless, but now it's making Normal

…Raiding pointless as well.

As far back as Dragonsoul started LFR, I used to use it to keep my alts geared up for “fun”. Through WoD and even into Legion LFR was still useful for gear.

Meanwhile my main runs with a Friends & Family guild through Normal raiding. Diving into a bit of Heroic if we can get Normal on farm. This means my main has always been well ahead of my alts in iLevel, which makes sense.

But BfA changed that. I didn’t notice it much in Uldir because most of my alts weren’t leveled yet. But then with Dazar’alaor it became evident, with just WQs and emissaries my alts can keep up with my main in iLevel. Hell, I finally hit 400 on my main… not from Raid drops, but from Emissary rewards! I haven’t had an upgrade from raiding in weeks.

I know most people are probably Heroic farming raiders with a few cutting edge Mythic folks, so you probably look down on us Normal raiders as lesser players. But still…

Don’t get me wrong, I like that I can keep my alts geared up with WQs and emissaries without having to have “fun” in LFR, but my actual main raiding toon should not be only 4 iLevels higher than my alts when I raid weekly. Either raid loot is too low iLevel or emissaries too high… or maybe a combination of both. Either way, it makes Normal raiding feel pointless.

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Join Heroic raiding, its only slightly… the same.

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Raiding is no longer the source of gear. Gear can be obtained in every place now. People who only do raids could be outgeared now by people who farms Mythic +. Weekly rewards from Mythic + gets you high ilevel gear… and titan residuum.

People who raid Heroic Raid and above and farms Mythic + can be outgeared by people who do the same Heroic Raid and Mythic+ farming and who patiently do his Island Expeditions who gets titan residuum in some weeks.

People who do more chores gear faster.

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There’s no reason toons that raid should be 30 ilvl ahead of people who don’t. There’s no reason why toons that do heroic should be 30 ilvl ahead of people who raid normal. And there’s no reason that people who do mythic should be 30 ilvl ahead of people who do heroic. 5 ilvl difference between tiers is fine. And time gated progression almost equivalent to heroic mode gear is perfectly fine for people to acquire 5/6th of the way through a tier. A 5 ilvl overall difference is not an insignificant impact on performance, and that spread from top to bottom which is ~20 ilvl now used to be massive. People doing mythic as dps used to do 3-5 times the damage of folks who didn’t raid. It was entirely ridiculous.

I say this as someone who progresses through normal and heroic throughout a tier with about a dozen friends that still play and I also do M+ with them on multiple toons.

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Even if I couldn’t get equivalent items from WQs, I wouldn’t do LFR or normal for gear. It’s just not a reliable source. At least with WQs I know what I’m getting.

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Raiders used to be the main source of income for WoW, that’s changed to the casual players. Raiding is a niche thing these days in gaming. Gotta keep them casuals happy with a flow of loot.

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why not? If someone does more difficult content they get more rewards. You want bigger rewards? do more difficult content.

I’m not trying to sound like an elitist, but why do people that don’t raid need the gear powerful enough to do high end raiding? Unless you’re doing M+, but M+ has its own way to obtain gear.

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Que? How does anything easy make anything not-as-easy pointless?

Yes, it USED to be that your alts were, or could be hard to maintain, depending on your available time and commitment. Now, not so much. I play two toons mainly, have plenty of others at 110 and some on the way to 120, but both this Lock and my Druid are both equal ilvl and have been the entire expansion excepting for when I simply wasn’t running anything on my Druid.

Why is it such a downer for people who admit that they’re not even going to try to engage in the slightly more difficult options available, only to then complain that they’re gearing path is… too easy? What’s preventing you from taking those geared within 4 ilvls alt(s) into an ALT-Run-Raid?

Please, tell me as well how strong those emissary Azerite pieces are relative to their Raiding counterparts, even at LFR level? Can you show me the Treacherous Covenant trait on those non-raid pieces that gives you roughly 300+ main stat? I can sport x3 420 Mythic + Azerite pieces that have less Intellect than x3 Heroic pieces with Treacherous.

Now, there’s plenty of problems with BFA and the gearing systems, but you strive and reach for as far as you can, not just say, oh hey, I got some gear that’s similar Ilvl, everything that requires time and effort beyond solo-play is irrelevant.

If anything complain about the WQ trinkets designed for so many specs that lag behind in ilvl because we need to hope for miracle titanforges. Most raid trinks are average, or one at best per spec is good, leaving you to M+ or WQ’s or PVP to get anything else.

There’s plenty of content for you to consume, your choice to do so or not and I would agree that you should have equal avenues to gear no matter if you like one particular or all of them. To a degree of course… WQ trinkets and I guess as an extension, gear, shouldn’t be as strong as raid gear, however, because they’ve designed it in such a muckety muck way, some of those trinkets can compete at 40 ilvl deficits to some others. That’s a design issue that should certainly be corrected, but ilvl is not the be all end all, just like it always has been, the more difficult content yields the greatest rewards in terms of player power. They’ve always had convoluted pieces that were Ilvl bumps but not quite as useful in terms of their function.

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They do get more rewards and faster. They don’t need to be such large disparities that people are who do mythic raiding are gods in comparison to people who don’t. So as to why not, I counter with why should the disparity be that big? Why isn’t 5 ilvl difference fine? And everyone deserves progression. Whether you think people deserve gear increases or not isn’t relevant. The moment you ask, “why do you need raid gear!?!?!” you lose because you don’t need raid gear to do raids. You want it. Mythic BoD was done at 410 ilvl. Why is the ilvl cap not 410? Because you want gear. The same reason everyone else does.

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Rewards should be commensurate with the effort put in. There’s no reason why people who bust their butts in raids are only five ilvls higher than somebody who’s just tooling around the map doing easy world quests. That’s not how things work in the real world, and that’s not how they should work in here.

This “everyone deserves a trophy” crap has gone on way too long and way too far.

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Lfr has been pointless for a long time now.

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…and? M+ made pretty much any raiding other than Mythic Raiding pointless.

What’s your point?

LFR was also never intended to be part of gear progression.

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I’m just reporting you for trolling. You’re not even entertaining as you don’t present a single argument. /yawn

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Commenting on the fact that you’re reporting him says more about you than it does about him. Sure you could just silently report him, but that wouldn’t be as much fun, would it?

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Here’s a crazy idea:

Do the content you think is fun.

Seriously, this entire topic is “I feel compelled to do whatever thing gets me the best ilvl, and that thing is no longer necessarily the thing I want that to be.” Get over yourself.

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Did i say something report worthy? Hes pretty serious about that wq gear

Thought he was the one trolling lol

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Do you think I care what you think it says about me? I could just silently report him, but I’m making the point that if there’s substantive discussion to be had I’m happy to engage. There isn’t in the responses to me at all. The only thing in that last post was edited in after the fact and it contained a strawman. I never said I think people who do WQ’s should be equally geared as Mythic raiders. Such a position is a lie. Why would I bother engaging with a liar?

Edit: Shocker, coming to his defense and you’re the one liking his posts. That explains that lol

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Why did you bother engaging with him at all if you didn’t feel it was going to be a worthy discussion? You knew by his first post what his stance was, and it was very unlikely that you were going to change it.

That’s just choosing to be argumentative.

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Because I don’t need your permission or approval to post and I don’t care whether you like my responses? But you agree with his position so it’s okay to completely overlook his lack of substantive discussion and to try to condescend to me? So you’re choosing to be argumentative with me, lol. There’s a little hypocrisy showing through there pal, might want to cover that up.

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with the way gear stats work, 5 ilvl is not enough of a bump to gear to bridge the gap between difficulties.

if the difference between tiers was that low, damage done and taken would be too low to separate tiers.

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