WoW Retail Lore is completely ruined and ANY new xpac is a waste of time/money

That’s kind of what I meant when I said this:

But I don’t necessarily believe that any of this is what people actually visualize when they think of ‘old lore’ vs ‘new lore’, and I don’t think Chris Metzen’s involvement had anything to do with this happening over time. It has more to do with story bloat which has accumulated over time via the different central story elements we’ve seen throughout WoW’s lifetime rather than something which has a specific ‘start’ or ‘end’ to it.

I think when people try to visualize ‘old lore’ all it actively does it venerate some nonexistent standard which they once believed Warcraft’s setting to have, which it never really did to begin with.

If what people crave for is ‘consistency’ and ‘simplicity’, I don’t think placing these labels on the vague idea of ‘old lore’ is meaningful in any way when there wasn’t much consistency back then either and the simplicity of the ‘old lore’ came about through the writers not caring to explain anything (which isn’t necessarily a bad thing).

What attaching these labels to ‘old lore’ does do is fuel a fire of ‘old good vs. new bad’ mentality which isn’t productive in any conversation about WoW at all.

However, I don’t disagree that the relative ‘simplicity’ of the setting was attractive and what made Warcraft’s universe appealing as a setting to RP in. I think the overall vagueness to how everything works along with the assortment of different aesthetic and thematic pieces within Warcraft’s setting allowed for narrative flexibility that you don’t see in other settings… Something which has lessened post-Chronicles.

Yes, I saw you allude to that concept.

If we’re talking about what’s not productive, though, telling many people that the thing they liked was always bad is pretty non-constructive. I have found this out the hard way through almost 20 years of telling Warcraft fans “actually this always sucked”. It mostly just upsets people and doesn’t get anything done. Now I try to do it only where I can get a cheap laugh. >_>

The definitions of Good and Bad writing are very subjective; professional writers and critics have some standards which we often can find useful to treat as objective, but these standards are very esoteric and opaque to most. My impression of/high regard for Pellex is probably that she is familiar with these standards, but even still, there are areas subject to considerable disagreement.

I think it is much better not to try and define old/new lore definitions to suit your particular tastes, and rather to agree that the shine has fallen off and then try to direct the conversation to a productive, mutual investigation of the particulars of what could have caused this.

1 Like

But it’s really really funny.

Hence why I decided to open a thread called ‘WoW Retail Lore is completely ruined and ANY new xpac is a waste of time/money’ and responded to someone talking about Metzen’s return bringing any kind of narrative story change to harken back to that ‘old lore’ era of WoW.

Like I said, I only really used Pellex’s comment about Metzen as a jumping-off point to talking about Metzen, was never really specifically responding to them.
I only really ever cared to argue about Metzen’s role within the writing of the game, rather than whatever we ended up arguing about.

Truth is, trying to bring any kind of productive conversation on the WoW Forums isn’t going to happen because most people are buried deep into their own notions on WoW lore anyway and most do not care beyond aesthetic…
And it’s not like anything anyone says here ever matters to any extent ever, it’s simply discussion surrounding something people get really passionate about and take really seriously to a goal with no end.

Whether their notions are something they’ve actually thought about or something they’re parroting from someone else or they’ve parasocially placed themselves within the setting to the extent that plot points are perceived as some form of attack on the ‘x faction community’.

I really just like arguing tbh, and I was curious to find what other people were thinking Metzen was actually going to bring to Warcraft’s narrative through his return.

Which, to me, seems to be the only thing the forums are even here for at this point.

I am not a huge fan of Metzen but I am tentatively hopeful that some combination of:

  • the modern writers’ interest in character work
  • Metzen’s interest in adrenaline rush rule of cool
  • a writing team unified behind a direction for the Horde now – heroic rather than a vehicle for callbacks to WC2

will result in some sort of happy middle ground where the game tries to be fun and larger than life but occasionally reality checks itself before it does something really wild

will it work out that way in practice? hard to say

3 Likes

I’m hopeful as well, or as hopeful as I can be about WoW lol.

What Metzen said during Blizzcon inspired some confidence in the overall direction of the story, along with Blizzard challenging the idea of old outdated systems (like faction norms) has gotten me interested in what they’re planning going forward.

Feel like this is a big one, Blizzard is at least putting some thought in what they’re doing with the characters (evidence by Anduin in the TWW cinematic).

How well they actually pull this off we’ll definitely have to wait and see, I’m just glad that they’re at least experimenting with writing going forward.

Definitely, this is one of Metzen’s admirable writing traits tbh.
From an actual writing perspective his entire motivations and inspirations behind writing stems from old D&D, 80s fantasy cartoons, and old comic books, and it shows.

Which definitely isn’t a bad thing, feel like Warcraft knowing what it is is definitely for the best in this scenario. Always felt like the heart of Warcraft is hokey schlock, and from what I’ve seen it seems people miss that (even if they can’t directly place their finger on this as what’s ‘missing’ from WoW’s story).

We’ll definitely have to see on this.

Honestly, I’d rather they just full dismantle the Horde at this point and focus on what the core of the Horde was initially meant to be. A group of refugees trying to survive on Kalimdor. Or at least spread the Horde out into being more accepting, never understood why the Horde, or really any nation in WoW needs to be portrayed as a conglomerate of ethnostates.

Of course, that’s an entirely unrealistic outlook on it… But I hope they definitely have some idea for the Horde going forward, or just continuously minimize the faction conflict because I honestly don’t care at this point.

This part in particular is what I feel the core of WoW is, and it seems to be what Metzen thinks it is too based on what he said at Blizzcon.

Honestly, over time the overarching plots and major political nonsense that’s happened in WoW has distracted from the main appeal of just being a no-name hero/mercenary. At least, that’s a lot of the appeal I’d hope to be taking out of WoW. Though as I said, I’m very skeptical of this considering we’re moving into a massive ‘cosmic plotline’ from what we know so far.

1 Like

to be honest i agree with you theres a bunch of things done wrong
-Adding evolution
-Adding the Cosmology
-Adding a world soul to azeroth
-time travel or alternate universe crap
-Retconning Night elf lore with evolution among other things
-Adding furry races and new sub races
-Catering to china in MoP expansion
-Woke politics and views being added and if you dont like it the devs attacked players calling them racist fatphobic sexist among other things
retconning something every expansion

the only way is see warcraft being saved is a hard reset from wc3 lore and keeping warcraft more fantasy focused stay focused on the races and dont let players fight cosmic lvl threats

1 Like

You know you can never take anyone seriously if they say this.

4 Likes

you know you can never take anyone seriously if they ignore or deny it

1 Like

Nah, it’s definitely the ones screaming to the heavens about woke politics. They are very unserious people.

Why, I bet they even have a “China ruined WoW” rant in their back pocket.

Very unserious people.

1 Like

Found another SJW. video games should serve as a form of escapism from real-world issues including real world politic and views. The inclusion of “woke politics” in a video game are always forced and intrusive, as it brings real-world debates and tensions into the virtual realm
Woke ideology always leads to an environment of intolerance and censorship. While the initial intention of promoting social justice and equality is commendable, Woke or SJW always become extreme, individuals and groups may enforce a rigid and dogmatic approach that stifles free speech and discourages open discussions. This can create an atmosphere where individuals fear expressing their opinions or engaging in meaningful dialogue, as any dissent or disagreement is seen as a direct affront to the ideology. which is what happened when devs attacks players

1 Like

You are a very unserious person.

2 Likes

cry as much as you want changes nothing

I agree, which is why you are unserious. Crying about Woke SJWs ruining your game. So very unserious.

I really wish you would share your prepared rant about how China ruined WoW. I love when Diet MAGA tries to be serious.

1 Like

crying more i see i made someone mad =) MAGA lol see someone has TDS

Taking you unseriously isn’t crying. It’s okay, I forgive you, you are a funny NPC.

But when will you finally do your China rant??!!?

1 Like

more TDS tears from a npc trying to use a MAGA term lol you want a china rant go to youtube you’ll find plenty allegations of human rights abuses, including concerns regarding freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, and the treatment of ethnic minorities

You don’t know what tears really are, do you?

You are the definition of an NPC. You have no personal opinions, just a bunch of rhetoric you repeat without even using the correct context.

You are a broken bot. All it takes to provoke an angry response from you is to call you unserious.

1 Like

using “unserious” complaining about the use of the word woke hypocritical of you calling someone else is a NPC using rhetoric you’ve heard
i said woke and immediately got a response out of you.

again another response someones mad

That was Denona. That is a different person entirely. I do not expect a bot to understand this, but maybe your programmer will get flagged and see this mistake.

I only responded when you got all offended that you are an unserious bot.

And low and behold, it kicked in your pre-programmed rant function!!

Bots are fun. I’m sure you’ll go back to saying this is all crying again, because you don’t have many responses programmed in.

1 Like