All I here is “wah wah me no like game, it has more complexity than I can understand WAHHHH!!!”
Do everyone a favor and shut up.
Lore in this game hasn’t mattered for over a decade, this is not some recent year thing, this is since Cata at the VERY least, if not sooner.
If you don’t like the game, cool, here’s a cookie.
Now shut up and leave since you clearly don’t like it.
Tired of seeing people crying how much they hate the game yet, like crack addicts, never leave.
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So much cringe on this thread.
Lore died when BC was announced.
Thats it
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The lore of Warcraft has never been deep or complex, or even good.
It’s always been passable old-fashioned goofy high fantasy, that’s it.
It’s only purpose to create some form of narrative that’s loose and flexible.
Never has it tried to be more than that, and that simple fact hasn’t changed over the course of all WoW’s expansions.
People always try to pretend like ‘Classic Lore’ pre-TBC, pre-WotLK, or whatever expansion they didn’t like was extensive…
When that isn’t the case at all. The vast majority of Warcraft’s old lore came from the RPGs, there was barely anything within the actual game itself. Yet people never mention the RPG in these kinds of conversations when they try to harken back to that ‘good old lore of old’.
If you want your ‘old lore’ back, just say you want them to recanonize the RPG.
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It seems a lot more like that’s what you’re doing. Classic was not, and still is not, meant to be a reboot for World of Warcraft. It is a snapshot in time for people who want to play an earlier version of the game, and they are adding new gameplay mechanics here and there just to keep it fresh - they are not going to use it to redo the story, especially not when they’ve gone as far as to map out the next three expansions (approximately six years of content).
And frankly, even if they did, it would still be the same people behind it. Much like how people mistakenly say Warcraft IV would be some magic cure all for the lore, a reboot built off of Classic would not do anything either.
Also as much distaste as I have for the lore, most of the things you listed are probably some of the the silliest things a person can complain about:
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Thrall not being Warchief isn’t necessarily a bad thing at all - the real crime was killing off Vol’jin, who actually had an opportunity to be an interesting leader, before he had any real chance to do anything.
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While I agree with you that villainbatting Sylvanas was a bad decision and sloppily done, the new Council is hardly nobodies. Warcraft has had an over-reliance on the same handful of big names ever since late Wrath, and anything that moves things closer to the factions existing as individuals rather than hiveminds is a good thing (if done well, which I think for the most part the new Desolate Council has been).
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Designating absolute authority over a world superpower to a singular individual is almost always a terrible decision, and the abolishment of that absolute authority in favor of equal voices for all bodies under it is hardly a bad thing. I don’t really believe it’s been implemented well - just slapping all the faction leaders under one roof without establishing who handles what (like who is the High Overlord or whatever the new head of military is now for example) - but the concept is good. Also, while the Warchief position has been a staple of the Horde until the end of BFA, it is not a defining trait for the term “Horde” - if that was the case, it stopped being called the Horde the second they introduced anything other than Orcs.
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What planet are you living on? Who were Void Elves supposed to be pandering to? While I happen to like them, most people were demanding High Elves - not Void Elves. And they essentially had to strongarm Blizzard overtime into giving them High Elf customizations. I don’t think you know what the term pandering means.
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Grow up.
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Stromgarde has been alive since Vanilla - they just haven’t succeeded in reclaiming their capital until BFA. This is not a huge change.
If these odd reasons are what makes World of Warcraft no longer World of Warcraft for you, then I don’t think there will be any pleasing you.
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I don’t trust you to be intellectually honest with yourself, but let’s say I believe you. Even if that is the case, that’s because there is nothing to do but raid in Classic. Retail has M+ and a lot more casual activities to do.
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“If… if blizzard just did a doover things will be better!”
I can’t help but laugh whenever numbskulls come in here saying this nonsense. For better or for worse, WoW has managed to have a myriad of iconic moments. Them redoing everything from Vanilla onwards would just leave everything they attempt feeling like a cheap, desperate copy of what was already done.
And that’t not even getting into the issue that just redoing everything doesn’t guaruntee it will be better written the second try. In short, I suggest you leave. And don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
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It’s been kind of ruined but you’ll just have to get use to it or just find different games besides WoW If they are not going to keep Classic TBC and Wrath forever but only Vanilla WoW.
Four years from now when we have Classic servers going all the way up through MoP these threads are going to be even funnier.
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Watching someone rage while using this insult unironically is very funny!!
Popcorn eating crunch.
He will next tell us how much better we had it in Warcraft 3
Anyone who thinks Blizzard would split their resources and develop entirely new expansions for Classic instead of recycling their old work is definitely the one who is “desperately trying to convince [themself].” Classic+ is one thing, but rewriting the story is way beyond the scope of what Classic is meant to be. They just promised they were going to try to deliver Retail content at a faster pace, so it’s a wild take to think they’d also want to double their work load on top of that and make an alternate timeline.
Absolutely. My enthusiasm for WoW died alongside my Warchief. Then BfA was meant to build up my “faction pride” but it only made it impossible for me to ever regain it.
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Unfortunately I believe you are correct. Seems the private servers are going to be around for some time still.
That wouldn’t completely be wrong. I think Warcraft 3 was the last time they had a narrative planned out.
As soon as we went to Outland to kill Kael and Illidan, the story started becoming, “What can we do next?” Or who can they bring back to kill again.
The next expansion is about underground kingdoms no one knew existed? I thought mines were a thing? I guess they only excavate lateral in Azeroth.
Current WoW feels like a “What if?”
What if there were more Dragon Aspects? What if there was a bigger Lich King? What if the Titans were bad guys?
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Well, Thats generally a problem for the developers as much as for us, like, think of the seeds that were planted in warcraft prior to WoW, Lich King, Scourge and the Legion, all those problems have been dealt with.
The devs have to constantly come up with new stories and add to the lore and add new content to the game, new zones and so on.
There are better and worse ways to do that of course, but unless they stop making warcraft, they can’t stop making new zones and new places with lore never before heard of.
This was a major issue even in Vanilla and it’s not really the fault of the Devs, Warcraft 3 and WoW were effectively being made at the same time, it’s why certain regions in both games seem so different and why even in Vanilla there were retcons, that’s just scratching the surface tbh.
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The biggest issue I would say, is they made the world too small and explored it all immediately. They did it with Outland, Northrend, Pandaria too.
They are course correcting now; returning to the old world and not killing very villain immediately, but they really didn’t do their research. Leave yourself space. I am not really a LotR buff, but I do know that world is massive and the books/movies only touch a fraction of the world. This underground stuff, as dumb as it is, there is also potential. I hope what we see is only a fraction of what is down there and we don’t learn and explore everything.
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I don’t disagree about a lot of those things being bad lore decisions, but I don’t think they’re likely to be changed. Especially the ones that have already happened.
True, although Metzen’s back (and with the benefit of hindsight). So there is that.
I don’t get why people herald Metzen as some kind of Warcraft lore messiah. Almost all of the things people hate or dislike about the lore came from him.
Metzen is good at coming up with basic concepts/aesthetics and some basic story outlines, but the actual story nitty-gritty should be left to someone else entirely.
A lot of what Metzen creates is based off of old fantasy tropes that have some sort of twist. Good Orcs, Good/Druidic Drow, Evil Paladins, Evil King Arthur, and other such basic fantasy (often D&D-inspired) themes that are given some form of twist to differentiate them. If it isn’t a basic fantasy trope, it often comes from comics or other old nerd-culture pieces.
Actual realistically storytelling however that isn’t high-fantasy on the level of He-Man or basic drama is lost on him, I feel.
A lot of the more layered political or cultural themes/pieces I feel people often expect out of WoW don’t originate from him, and don’t really exist in the setting to begin with.
In the grand scheme of things, what we’ve got is the best we’re going to get.
I’ve said this plenty of times before, but what people think Warcraft’s story should be vs. what it’s going for seem to be two completely different things. What we’re going to get out of a ‘Classic+ alternative storyline’ isn’t going to be anything more substantial than what we’ve got already. If anything, it will be worse due to a perceived need to stick to what was established in WC3 and ‘Classic’ WoW to a much more extreme extent, something which actively makes the story worse in the retail-version of the game.
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I imagine a lot of that comes down to them never expecting WoW to be going for twenty years. That is an insane amount of longevity for a game. So, they burnt through their OG villains like this might be the last expansion.
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