Pay to win means you can pay real life money for something that is not available from any other currency. If you could pay 50$ for a exclusive tier set that doubles your damage but couldn’t buy that set with gold, then it would be pay to win.
If you pay for tokens and get carried in mythic and get a good weapon. You didn’t pay to win, you paid to skip the wait.
Even if you buy a full mythic ilvl gear set you didn’t win anything. Chances are someone who worked for that same set via in game methods will out preform you anyway.
Bis gear can only carry you so far, at that level skill comes into play way more than what trinket you’re using.
I have no problem with boosting, I just think it’s stupid when people call wow pay to win when I could go farm for a bit and get the same stuff that this dude dripped 100$ on.
Considering you can directly exchange real currency for player power I’d consider there to be an element of P2W.
Though unless we’re talking about hall of fame or PvP stuff I also don’t think it particularly matters. Someone else paying real money to make their character more powerful doesn’t mean that I’m less powerful. Someone else winning doesn’t mean that I lose. My gameplay experience isn’t affected in the least so I don’t really care all that much.
But “Pay to sort-of catch up some to people who will always be better than you, and will always have better stuff than you, and already have the things you’re buying from them, and they never had to pay a dime for it, just like most players” doesn’t sound quite as catchy, though.
It’s also pay for consumables and boes so my raid team can kill bosses. We had a couple of guys in the guild buying 4-6 tokens a month just for consumables/repairs and boes.
Folks only argue this because they want to pretend they could earn the item/mount/title/achievement/ect when, in actual fact, the only way they could get any of those things is by buying them because they just don’t have the ability to earn them on their own merits.
Despite the argument you’ve presented, it’s going to fall on deaf ears. The people who have identified wow as p2w aren’t going to be convinced.
The issue is deeper rooted than the game being just p2w or not. OTHER than PvP, the progress of others really has no impact on your individual progress. In other words, there is no fixed unified view of what “win” actually is. The people who claim WoW is p2w think that the progress of others in PvE somehow devalues their own achievements. They’re imposing their views of what “winning” is onto the general populace.
And that is honestly a personality flaw in that they’re seeking recognition and validation from others, in the first place.
…so what you’re really trying to convince others of when you say WoW is not p2w is for them to correct their inherent need to seek validation from others. It’s not that easy.
For the hundredth time, this is not the actual definition of pay to win. Clash of clans is prime example. All power ups are purchasable by playing the game. Yet anyone at the top pays insane amounts of money and it’s one of the most profitable mobile games despite being free to play.
Wow is basically the same.
Also I encourage you to think how boosting in PvP is actually pay to win. ESPECIALLY with rating locked gear. It’s also problematic in PvE for a number of reasons even if it isn’t directly pay to win.
You said you were stating facts, so you must be talking about yourself. Since you can’t state actual facts about ALL PLAYERS and their reasons for doing anything.
Virtually every mobile game is ‘pay for convenience’ so great, I’m glad we’ve established that WoW is on par with every other mobile abomination at this point.
People don’t even understand the concept of what pay 2 win means.
Pay 2 win means you’re buying something that gives you an automatic advantage over others.
Somebody buying +15 key runs or AOTC, etc. isn’t getting a competitive edge over anyone else. They’re just getting achievements to check their ego box.
I remember playing pay 2 win games where you could blatantly buy super upgraded weapons and armors that nobody had regular access too ingame. Buying hacks is a pay to win thing too.
