So lately I've been playing a lot of Diablo 3 on a fresh account since 2 weeks ago or so (around GR80 as a Monk ATM). I am not a Diablo vet although I did poke around Diablo 2 a bit back in the day but it never stuck.
Since I've put a pretty decent amount of hours in to the game it has actually given me a pretty interesting perspective in regards to how WoW is currently designed.
1. World Quests (WoW) are a straight up copy paste of bounties (D3). You do 5 and get a chunk reward.
2. Mythic+ is a straight up copy paste of greater rifts. There are even affixes, although affixes in D3 are tied to the existence and engagement of random (usually elite) mobs, rather than just baseline across an instance.
3. Combat in WoW has gradually changed in to a different style from what it used to be. The way Mythic+ is these days is very reminiscent of the D3 gameplay loop of running through tons of groups before finding a good place to stop and then blasting everything down with cleaves and AOE while avoiding certain affix dangers.
4. Legendaries aren't a thing anymore since Legion, but the comparison here is obvious as there are legendary drops in D3 all with similarly gameplay changing effects as the ones in WoW had.
5. AP both in Legion and BFA is a copy paste of Paragon levels in how you level and gain slight stat increases despite being level Lcap.
6. Core rotations are much smaller in Diablo 3 as you have the added difficulty of playing a pseudo-shmup sometimes when dodging fireballs and staying out of huge circles and lines of stuff. You do this in WoW as well but I think we've all noticed that the movepool has gotten smaller in WoW over time.
So basically, my perspective has really been taken for a ride here.
WoW is literally a wonky and less polished version of their Diablo 3 gameplay model.
I never really has this perspective until now that I've put some good time in to D3.
1. Bounties are better than WQ because you can do them as much as you want and continue to get an "emissary reward". Despite having the ability to do them endlessly, it creates no complications in terms of reward economy for your character. You don't have to wait out a cooldown. If you feel like farming bounties, you just do them.
2. GRifts are better than Mythic+. You don't "deplete" keys, you just try again starting at the same level you failed at. There are still groups who carefully select their party composition, but the pressure to have the perfect comp is not so much that failure kills your keystone. You just...try again. The maps are also randomly generated so you don't ever truly have the map memorized. You see familiar environments for sure but every run feels like a "new" dungeon entirely as opposed to running the same places over and over from a small pool.
3. The massive mobbing style of Diablo 3 just makes more sense in the isometric perspective. WoW used to have a much more calculated style of pulling, where each pull was in and of itself it's own challenge. Now it seems there's no challenge unless you pull several packs at a gime. This point might be more subjective so I apologise.
4. Legendaries are done much better in D3. In WoW you had many players frustrated that they could not obtain their desired legendaries that which seemed necessary to compete on damage (or performance). While you still need to grind a bit to acquire your desired legendaries, you are not limited or handicapped in repeatable activities available to you in D3, along with currency vendors to attempt acquiring your legendary. This means you can acquire them fairly quickly and targeting is possible. The blood shards vendor was basically copy pasted in to WoW as the nethershard vendor and the soon to be implemented azerite currency vendor. You pick a mystery box for a specific slot and hope for something good in that slot.
The pure income of loot in D3 is simply so much higher that failing to acquire the right legendary is not nearly as disappointing. This isn't even touching on weird limiters and "bad luck protection" mechanics they had implemented in WoW...
5. Paragon is fairly rewarding compared to artifact levels and HoA levels. The stats you get to pick from contain a bit more depth than HoA has or Concordance had. The only situation in which WoW takes a win is that the first 46 or whatever points of your artifact were definitely more interesting than Concordance.
So, yeah. I've come to realize now that WoW is basically a watered down and less rewarding Diablo game with more cartoonish graphics and enemies and a different camera POV, a much worse gameplay loop, and overall an odd inclination to limit handicap you in so many ways the real Diablo doesn't.
So I have to ask ..where is the originality here? I get that it's normal for devs to take something that works and use it in another game, but to me this seems just a bit too blatant, and it's all done so much worse in WoW that I have to ask what the point of making WoW a Diablo clone was when people don't seem to like it all that much anyway like that?
I dunno..tell me what ya think.
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All I can say, is I agree.
All true, but old news and discussed to death.
WoW took some of D3's devs a while back.
Which is why you hear the term "maintenance mode" spouted off on their forums constantly.
Just one point on the D3 paragon..
Dont be fooled, It has 0 depth. Once you hit p800 all stats are full except for the infinite main stat/vit portions. It is simply +5 main stat, or vit per point thereafter forever.
WoW took some of D3's devs a while back.
Which is why you hear the term "maintenance mode" spouted off on their forums constantly.
Just one point on the D3 paragon..
Dont be fooled, It has 0 depth. Once you hit p800 all stats are full except for the infinite main stat/vit portions. It is simply +5 main stat, or vit per point thereafter forever.
Aren't the D3 devs the ones working on WoW?
11/13/2018 06:38 PMPosted by SoulĂ°iggaAll true, but old news and discussed to death.
WoW took some of D3's devs a while back.
Which is why you hear the term "maintenance mode" spouted off on their forums constantly.
It seems like WoW literally based the entire foundation of it's gameplay loop on "some" of these Diablo 3 devs. Which devs were these?
These devs should be perma banned.
WQs and Mythic+ are from Diablo, but they’re really, really good game systems.
WQs make the entire playable landmass(es) relevant. They get you out into thr world instead of sitting in a city.
Mythic+ make the easiest group content relevant, more challenging, repeatable and rewarding for the entire lifespan of an expansion.
That is freaking perfect game design, man. WoW needs both for all future expacs, IMO. They just work.
Now, does Blizz do a good iob of executing those systems and making them fun? Not completely. I don’t have any WQs that I dislike in BFA, but they really need to do a better job of designing dungeons to be fun.
WQs make the entire playable landmass(es) relevant. They get you out into thr world instead of sitting in a city.
Mythic+ make the easiest group content relevant, more challenging, repeatable and rewarding for the entire lifespan of an expansion.
That is freaking perfect game design, man. WoW needs both for all future expacs, IMO. They just work.
Now, does Blizz do a good iob of executing those systems and making them fun? Not completely. I don’t have any WQs that I dislike in BFA, but they really need to do a better job of designing dungeons to be fun.
How did I see this coming? Although tbh, I assumed it was coming from OP.11/13/2018 07:06 PMPosted by XeniThese devs should be perma banned.
K
you aren't addressing how wow just does both of those things a lot worse...why? If you're gonna shamelessly lift systems from another game and hamfist them in to another at least do them in a way that feels just as good to do.11/13/2018 07:16 PMPosted by ZarlesWQs and Mythic+ are from Diablo, but they’re really, really good game systems.
WQs make the entire playable landmass(es) relevant. They get you out into thr world instead of sitting in a city.
Mythic+ make the easiest group content relevant, more challenging, repeatable and rewarding for the entire lifespan of an expansion.
That is freaking perfect game design, man. WoW needs both for all future expacs, IMO. They just work.
Now, does Blizz do a good iob of executing those systems and making them fun? Not completely. I don’t have any WQs that I dislike in BFA, but they really need to do a better job of designing dungeons to be fun.
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11/13/2018 07:16 PMPosted by ZarlesWQs and Mythic+ are from Diablo, but they’re really, really good game systems.
That is EXTREMELY subjective. We went many many years without either of those with plenty of stuff to do. If anything it’s the new development cycle that has it all wrong.
11/13/2018 07:30 PMPosted by SolarwyndsHow did I see this coming? Although tbh, I assumed it was coming from OP.11/13/2018 07:06 PMPosted by XeniThese devs should be perma banned.
You are mind reader
11/13/2018 06:49 PMPosted by Zipzø11/13/2018 06:38 PMPosted by SoulðiggaAll true, but old news and discussed to death.
WoW took some of D3's devs a while back.
Which is why you hear the term "maintenance mode" spouted off on their forums constantly.
It seems like WoW literally based the entire foundation of it's gameplay loop on "some" of these Diablo 3 devs. Which devs were these?
I honestly don't remember, but I believe Wyat Cheng was one of them.
But don't quote me on that.
11/13/2018 08:56 PMPosted by Soulðigga11/13/2018 06:49 PMPosted by Zipzø...
It seems like WoW literally based the entire foundation of it's gameplay loop on "some" of these Diablo 3 devs. Which devs were these?
I honestly don't remember, but I believe Wyat Cheng was one of them.
But don't quote me on that.
You have been quoted.
11/13/2018 09:00 PMPosted by Egologic11/13/2018 08:56 PMPosted by SoulĂ°igga...
I honestly don't remember, but I believe Wyat Cheng was one of them.
But don't quote me on that.
You have been quoted.
Well someone was going to heh, put my foot in that one good and proper.
11/13/2018 06:27 PMPosted by ZipzøI dunno..tell me what ya think.
D3 was just a petri dish for game mechanics to add to WoW?
Welcome to my personal hell, OP. Been here for 6 years now, I think? Good to have you. Fem Undead, we rock
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World quests are just dailies with better user interface integration. They're superior since you don't have to remember where the daily quests are located and they rotate (so you're not doing the same stuff everyday), but they're mechanically identical. In fact, it'd be nice if they'd go back and turn all the old dailies into world quests so that they're easier to spot and activate. Like the dungeon entrance markers, these are things that need to be extended back consistently across the game.
Sorry, that was a bit of a drift. What I'm trying to say is that Warcraft started with dailies, Diablo 3 improved on them, and then Warcraft took them back. Can't blame them for that; if it is an overlapping concept and one game is doing it better, best to apply what they learned to the other.
Strangely, World of Warcraft took its structure from Diablo 2 first, down to the original talent trees. It's really just a matter of iteration. The company is producing an RPG product and they are fine-tuning their gameplay as an expression of their brand. It seems strange because the games aren't being released and abandoned, so they're evolving simultaneously.
Diablo 3 is certainly ahead on gameplay at the moment, though, I won't argue that. World of Warcraft is in need of a talent and role overhaul, a stat restructure, and the aforementioned back-expansion conversion of dailies to world quests.
Sorry, that was a bit of a drift. What I'm trying to say is that Warcraft started with dailies, Diablo 3 improved on them, and then Warcraft took them back. Can't blame them for that; if it is an overlapping concept and one game is doing it better, best to apply what they learned to the other.
Strangely, World of Warcraft took its structure from Diablo 2 first, down to the original talent trees. It's really just a matter of iteration. The company is producing an RPG product and they are fine-tuning their gameplay as an expression of their brand. It seems strange because the games aren't being released and abandoned, so they're evolving simultaneously.
Diablo 3 is certainly ahead on gameplay at the moment, though, I won't argue that. World of Warcraft is in need of a talent and role overhaul, a stat restructure, and the aforementioned back-expansion conversion of dailies to world quests.
Diablo 2 was epic .diablo 3 was just meh… could not help myself to play it longer