“confirmed source inside”
the alleged source:
This guy is a classic example how wow becomes retail eventually. Everyone gets the same gear no matter of time effort and certain level of skill.
1 Like
Who’s Xer, a new old god perhaps?
1 Like
It was never needed ever. People who said “I had to stay offline” were offline even with boons. Boons didn’t actually do anything of the sort
The real reason players wanted boons is because they chose the wrong server type. PVP instead of PVE
This happens because they RMT the gear, just like in Classic.
It’s way easier for “everyone” to earn BIS legitimately in Vanilla than in retail (since vanilla is so easy).
Cezar gave you the best answer thus far unless you want to throw in nostalgia for a small percentage of people. Having played vanilla and classic from day 1 its hard for me to see any appeal whatsoever if you’re talking a mainstream audience. People were able to game the old pvp system when it was relevant (or current if you like) almost two decades ago and it didn’t get any better with time as Classic proved.
The last few ranks are still quite the investment under the new system except now no one can purposefully block you. Its an improvement to be sure.
1 Like
I believe the opposite is true. The old system has a greater emphasis on time played and is more conducive, not less, to AFK engagement. A goal of motivating players to actually play the game instead of AFK is one I can certainly get behind, but returning to the old system is not the way here. You’ve had some really good thoughts on this in the past, but they do require further changes. I would be on board for this.
Both the old system and the new one are entirely dependent on honour gained. The difference is that the old system ranks you against other players to determine how much honour is required to advance while the new system is a fixed, static amount. AV is currently meta because it provides the most honour value at the most consistent pace, which would not change in the old system.
If we can set aside our distaste for changes, I think a lot of people would be open to tweaks that encourged more options for diversity in the battlegrounds players participate in.
Based on what? Both the old and the new system are not about skill, they are about time played and nothing more. This is not to say that skill isn’t a factor in PvP, just that it’s largely not required to succeed in either implementation of the Vanilla ranking systems.
This is what I mean when I say that players need to be reminded. I remember well how things were before boons were introduced and I remember the very distinct change after they were. I played on a PvE server at the time (so I did choose correctly) and overnight it led to a much wider availability of players doing dungeons as they were no longer hoarding their world buffs.
As I said, I’m perfectly ok with us learning this lesson again though. I think a forced period of, say, 6 months with no boons should be enough to get the point across. It will have a detrimental impact on the game’s population but I found a place to play where this won’t matter, and I think the mega clusters could stand to take a population hit anyway 
For real, I’m not joking, go ahead and suspend the boons.
2 Likes
Also, no premades.
4 Likes
Ah, true, though not universally so. If honour from other BGs was increased I would still avoid WSG, but I certainly would put AB into my rotation more.
In WSG premades can hold me hostage indefinitely. In AB they’re going to win eventually, so I don’t mind it as much. I just lose and go to the next game.
LOL. that’s hilarious
Guy don’t say something on the internet lest it’s true.
I agree that AV is the meta because of its efficiency for ranking but I think there are other factors that drive its popularity albeit still under the meta paradigm.
You can start doing AV at level 51. If you’re below 60 or otherwise undergeared, you can still contribute in some way. Rep is far easier to obtain and has decent rewards if you’re a newer 60. No groups larger than 5 people (no full premades) as I mentioned. You’re far less likely to be chastised by teammates about your gear in AV in comparison to the other two.
There’s probably a couple more reasons I cant think of right now but AV has a few more things going for it outside of just the honor gains.
And yea, Im with you, its AB and AV for me. Ill do the occasional WSG here and there on a toon Im not actively trying to rank with but other than that I pretty much avoid it.
1 Like
I think there’s more discussion to be had here but I would go so far as to say that this is beside the point. I fundamentally agree with the basis of all you’ve said here but all this speaks to a broader need for a balance pass on BGs and their rewards. A return to the old honour system doesn’t really offer any advantages here. AV will still be the most beneficial place to play under both systems.
As I mentioned above, if we’re talking changes, I’m all for it. I’ve never been shy about the fact that I support tactical changes that are well thought through, tested, and solve very specific problems in Era without compromising its core nature. This is absolutely an area that I can get behind, just as I support the change to the new honour system.
It honestly sounds like you and I agree a lot here on what the issues are, but I’m still having trouble understanding why you would support a return to the old honour system. Am I missing something that you believe drives the new meta that’s only offered by the current honour system implementation?
1 Like
I dont have a problem with your take here but I wanted to point out that sometimes simply decrying “meta” doesn’t take everyone or everything into account. Some people, like myself, simply love AV and favor it for that reason.
I typically see several R14s on both sides in individual games so while I agree that AVs popularity is largely driven by people wanting to rank (or perhaps a combination of reasons), its not the only reason even if it is the big one.
I respect your opinion but I disagree here.
Agreed. However, I don’t foresee a return to it under any circumstances.
Im not. Still, Im kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place as Ive always promoted myself as a no changes classic andy so Im almost forced to stick to my guns - but there is a caveat to that which Ill touch on in a second. Even so Ive never been a fan of the vanilla honor system and have said as much on multiple occasions. Ive also defended the changes at the time and in the time since they were implemented given how it played out after classics relaunch.
The only way I would ever get on board with a return to the old honor system is if it was in place for the game as it used to be when vanilla was current. That is to say, no cross realm BGs - server only, like it used to be. That’s the only scenario in which I would support it. Wouldn’t mind an older, more vanilla version of AV either.
Otherwise Im totally fine with it as it stands now. Heck, I’d be fine with more “fan friendly” changes with regard to those last couple of ranks.
1 Like
It would appear that I have misinterpreted your responses along this chain to mean that you were supporting a return to the old honour system. I apologize for my misunderstanding here, that was the basis for most of my replies and confusion surrounding our discussion thus far on this issue.
There is one separate thing I want to respond to though…
Just as a general statement, I don’t think this has to be true. I know I’ve certainly changed my views on Classic Era over the last 5 years. We’ve all spent a lot of time on this game and I think it’s safe to say that we know what’s important to the experience and what’s important to us. That’s obviously going to differ from person to person but it’s also going to differ for you over the course of your life.
Just 'cause you thought a thing one time doesn’t mean you always have to think that. In fact, I would say it’s probably a good thing to re-evaluate as time goes on.
Anyway, that’s just some thoughts I wanted to express there. For the honour system specifically, I do have something else I want to put forth but I’m going to wait until I hit R14 to post about it. Because obviously you can’t have an opinion until you’re R14, right? 
1 Like
Yes it would. Because once you are br3 or higher, you cannot keep up with br1 if they are a basin or gulch team. You can make far higher hph in those battlegrounds
Ever wonder why people ranking now still think 500k caps are too high? It’s because AV hph is dogwater
But the meta is perma av in a fixed system
This Tubbly guy just can’t stop coping with his free Rank 14 on the dead era server.
Everyone getting rank 14 is BAD for the game. That’s it. It doesn’t matter how the award is designed, by grinding, rated arena, rbg. If Blizzard gets everyone free rank14 (with very minimal effort) on next fresh or classic+, then it is DOA.
1 Like
I think the pvp system should evolve with the server just like the phases. A fresh start server should have the old system in tack until AQ40 opening. After that i think it should definitely be easier to reach r14. Also, the rep grind for WSG and AB sucks. Something should be done about that.
1 Like
Yes, fewer r14s will make the game last longer
Cause if the sod rank is in fresh, then 7 weeks from bgs launch you will have thousands of r14s same day,m
A priest in another thread said “good to know I can just rank on av weekends only” tubbly doesn’t seem to understand that the sod rank basically solidifies av only where as the old system you were basically required to play all 3 to be effective
1 Like
Hey, so I think you may be mistaken here. While I am on a dead server, my ranking journey is no different from yours at this current time. I do acknowledge that under the current system Rank 14 is much more attainable than it was in the past, to the point where if we didn’t have the honour changes I wouldn’t be pursuing it, but that’s largely related to the no decay change than the actual quantities involved.
There were… I don’t want to say advantages, but definitely differences to ranking on a dead server in the old system. I’ve had a lot of conversations with my guild mates about how it used to be. They had to jump through a lot of hoops to be able to rank back then, and I don’t think it was good for the game or them that they did so, but they also didn’t really have any other opportunity except to leave their server.
There’s kind of two elements to this…
- Everybody getting the title associated with R14 is bad for the game.
- Everybody getting the gear associated with R14 is bad for the game.
To the former (ie, 1), I would actually agree here. That title is supposed to be meaningful and it’s not, but I would also contend that it wasn’t in the old system either. As I’ve suggested several times now, it’s not something awarded due to skill, it’s awarded exclusively to those willing to spend the time to get it. Is this a good way to measure such a reward? Probably not. This is something retail still struggles with today, in spite of rating based matchmaking, due to win trades and rank selling.
To the latter (ie, 2), I disagree. I’m not sure if you’ve ranked in the new system but to call it “free” grossly misrepresents the time involved in the undertaking. These last few weeks have been 10-12 hour days in AV, it’s been quite exhausting. I realize that it took even more time in the old system, but that’s certainly not free. The people actually doing the grind (and not AFK/botting or purchasing pre-ranked accounts) are putting a significant meaningful amount of time invested.
Furthermore, depending on class, the rewards gained land somewhere in the BWL/AQ40 range of power. I raid on my main and I PvP on my alt. In roughly the same period of time (because I do not rank every week) and for faaaaaaar less effort, my main significantly out-gears my alt. So roughly 6 months at a fairly casual pace to be less geared than I was in maybe 6 weeks of casual raiding? Vanilla PvP was never the optimal path to gearing and this new system doesn’t necessarily change that, it just provides a more viable alternative.
I’m actually ok with this grind taking a long time, the only real beef I have is the quantity of honour you have to get. I don’t think it’s a good thing to encourage people to play 10-12 hours daily, but I think it’s perfectly fine for it to take upwards of six months at a casual pace to get gear at the mid levels of PvE raiding.
1 Like