So two things to start, no this isn’t meant to open up comparisons to other games but certainly there are examples. Second, I don’t think Blizz will ever remove trash from raids so it’s just a fun little question.
Anyways, I find trash the most annoying part of raids and 90% pointless. I guess I used to like Kara trash when I started in TBC, so maybe after all this time I am “over it.”
Now to me Trial of Crusader is a bad example of no trash, I mean I would still maybe like to walk down a hall or room to room. But could an 8 boss, no trash raid in a big castle work for example?
Would it feel less epic to not fight minions before you fight the bosses? In a way the first 6-7 bosses are minions of the last boss anyways.
3 Likes
To me the idea of running around an empty building and all the way to each boss just seems weird. At that point why even have the elaborate set design and not just plop boss after boss in front of you?
It’d also seem like a huge financial waste to make a huge castle that’s mostly empty.
13 Likes
Yeah I can’t think of a good way to make it feel thematic without trash, I admit
3 Likes
I mean the Trial in Wrath worked in concept and design but people back then also were upset with Blizzard back then and called it lazy. But hey times change right, lol.
1 Like
This is how FFXIV does their raids and it is something I’m not a fan of. Each boss is just a separate room and thats it.
4 Likes
Yes. Unless it’s a ToC type raid, which you already noted isn’t that exciting.
3 Likes
Single boss raids? I’d prefer no trash.
Mini Raids? I’d prefer no trash, but wouldn’t mind a roaming patrol between the wings.
Big raids? I think trash is vital to the experience and storytelling. Trash that gives you examples of the upcoming mechanics is generally good for the game.
Here are recent examples of “Good Trash”:
- The 2 Ancients before Nymue.
- The drake bombing run event before the first boss in Vault.
I think wipe recovery should be improved before trash is removed. Players who push the idea of “all boss, no trash” simply want a boss rush mode, but either fail to recognize or willingly ignore that raids are tied to the story. The ENTIRE raid is a story arc, not just the climax or conclusion.
Refering to my opinion on storytelling, and with raid sizes:
- Single-Boss Raid:
“I’m in a dragon’s lair. I’m here to slay the dragon.” (Cool, let’s get in and out.)
- Mini-Raid:
“I’m in a den of dragons. I’m here to slay dragons. How are these dragons connected, and different?” (Cool, we can feel a bit more immersed.)
- Big Raid:
“I’m in a den of dragons. I’m here to slay dragons. How are these dragons connected, and different? Dragons have eggs, do they have whelps or guardians? Why else is this space so large?” (Cool, there’s a lot of treasure in here, our band of murder hobos likes to find treasure. But who guards the treasure?)
I think a good way to determine if trash is necessary or not is as such:
- If the raid instance was populated with no enemies, would I still be interested in the aesthetics? (If you find a grave full of gold and other riches, do you want to know how this grave belongs to?)
For me, a single boss raid answers that question. And a mini raid may answer that question as well. But a big raid with lots of details would make me upset to learn if something like Aberrus was populated by only a handful of boss-level creatures.
6 Likes
Depends
Sometimes the trash feels like its actually part of the raid itself, othertime its just dudes standing there we gotta kill cuz gameplay
2 Likes
I like to have some trash as I like the immersion and breather it adds. No you don’t need ICC level of trash for it to feel good and even vault this expansion has a bit more trash than what I like. I wouldn’t mind a smaller raid like ToC but not as the “main” patch raid.
4 Likes
Outside of lore and everything like that you’re in there to kill the bosses and get loot. The trash is only in there to waste your time.
2 Likes
Trashes give some of the most lucrative loot tho. BoEs
Personally I don’t mind raids the way they are ( as someone who plays both FF and WoW).
1 Like
I would prefer them with roughly 50 percent less…
Because the wow development team just use them as filler to extend the raid time.
1 Like
with trash, boes can drop which helps guild/gbanks for selling
without trash the raid timers are “short”
idk
Until WoD where half the trash no longer drops loot…
That’s my metric. If trash drops loot, even if it’s just gold, it’s worth my time. Otherwise, no. Especially if it’s the “you have to kill all of it to activate the boss or open a door” type.
2 Likes
That’s a fair metric to have.
do it like ff14. queue into the boss itself
I wish we had another raid like Hyjal where it’s just waves and waves of trash and then a boss and then more waves and waves of trash.
I like to AoE down mobs
2 Likes
No trash: No
less trash: probably good.
1 Like
Why would you suggest removing over half the raid group? ba dum tss
1 Like
Amirdrassil’s last three bosses have no trash packs leading up to them, so we have a precedent. I also enjoyed that more than dealing with mobs before getting to the whole point of a raid: the bosses. Though it should make sense I suppose; trash only where it’s logical.
1 Like