I got like 1930 week 2/3 on my retail rogue so I’m DECENT at pvp.
Wotlk so far feels really bad lol. For context this is for fighting fully geared players like myself. Nobody cares that you can 2 shot no geared noobs.
I’ve gotten used to vanish breaking in everything and never being able to immune death grip with cloak.
What I really don’t like is the actual lack of damage against plates and the random chance my abilities have to be dodged by str and int classes.
I know my burst rotation very well. I opened up on a hpally with less gear than me. Blew all my CDs for max damage. He popped nothing and I got him down to 50%.
To me wotlk Rogue feels a lot like retail, except you have slightly less control cause of how combo points work and no energy spikes, and A LOT less kill potential.
In retail if I blow some CDs for a go, I’m forcing SOME defensives or they’re dying.
In wotlk, if they’re plate, they don’t have to do anything. It’s actually so frustrating watching a clearly very lesser skilled player than me backpedal while mashing their front loaded damage and force me to run away or die lol.
Does this actually get better, cause I feel like I should have just rolled a disc priest and actually enjoyed the game lol
Edit: I know it’s a lot to read. After thinking about it I feel like it’s just plate that seems busted. I swear they take negative damage. Everything else seems like a fair fight.
Plate is supposed to be hard for you to break through, that’s the whole point of plate armor.
Get geared with armor pen and start using bleeds against plate wearers if you want to do better vs plate classes, consider stunlocking as well, you can’t play fair and trade blows with plate.
Classic rogue is fragile and needs to be played 2 steps ahead of the other player. Keep playing, practicing and getting better gear.
But always keep in mind that classic has hard counters in pvp and you will always have difficulty vs certain classes and an easy time vs others.
What abilities you use to kill will depend of course on your build and stats, if you have a ton of armor pen/crit and are sub, Shadow dances and ambush and do some good work.
Bleeds and poisons go through their armor but it’s a slow death and many plate have high upfront burst, be ready to kite or vanish after setting them up with dots.
Paladins you want to force a bubble as soon as possible, scare them and make them bubble then back off and wait for it to drop, don’t trinket repentance save it for their stun.
If you want ideas consider guides from Silent Shadows or watching videos from other rogues when they fight Plate DPS.
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Yeah rogue isn’t so braindead in Wrath so it’ll be tougher to play than retail where you can drool on your keyboard and win games
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fyi people who says a spec/class is braindead is a telltale sign they have no real experience for that class and suck at the game in general.
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??? It’s widely accepted in the PvP community that rogue is pretty braindead nowadays lol.
If I called BM hunter braindead, are you gonna say I don’t know what I’m talking about in regards to that too?
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BM was brain dead even back in WotLk so some things stay the same haha.
So yeah Rogue in WotLK is a thinking person’s game because while Sprint lasted longer it was also a longer duration cool down.
Sprint was used often either for escaping for a restealth or closing the gap. And saving CloS to ensure you escaped with Sprint was common too.
So aggressively using CloS wasn’t common in WotLk like in say Cata?
In WotLK you have to learn to save energy any time for a CS-KS combo. Pool energy when vanishing into a CS-KS combo.
Against plate you have to use SHIV a LOT as well as ruptures, garrotes and armor pen. It requires a lot of patience and timing!
Rogues dodge chance is WAY too low in the first season. The 2nd, 3rd and 4th season is where Rogues dodge chance from gear increases and that is when Rogues start to come into their element.
So Rogues in S1 of WotLK with gear isn’t going to be as strong as a Rogue in S2, S3, or S4.
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On your last point, that’s what I’ve been seen floating around as well.
Why exactly do you want to shiv plate a lot? It’s like 34 energy, which seems like a ton for what it does.
This is good info tho. I really appreciate you offering advice
Sub plays pretty much the same as retail, just less control and kill potential
shiv with crippling poison on offhand is an on demand 70% slow that can sometimes give you a free reset.
Also gives you some space to kite to recover some energy.
I find most of the time against geared plate users its just trying to wear them out
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If you find you are taking too much damage in general use the CloS glyph.
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Subtlety Rogues in Wrath aren’t there to independently murder people, you’re there for Wound Poison and control/utility. Even your burst window in Dance isn’t very scary against geared players, especially if you’re wearing resil gear yourself (which you have to if you want to not die to a stiff breeze). Gear scaling makes this worse over time, not better.
If you want to murder things, you go assassination Envenom builds for that. You trade some of that control and the mobility of Shadowstep for the ability to do truckloads of damage into whatever you focus on.
Double Rogue just as effective in Wrath. Just needs to be played with someone with an actual brain than 2 apes.
No healing outside first aid - a great positive for WoW
Unhealable burst damage in Dance - a great positive for WoW - when its a long cd and trinkets/bubble must be traded.
Good amounts of survivability if evasion cloak prep double vanish used properly.
Plate is hard but should be in Wrath - Armor mattered back then unlike retail.
Expose Armor is your friend - Killing 100-0 in a single stun to mail + is unlikely but double dps comps will be fine as Rogue.
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