Looking for some opinions here.
In TOC and ICC in Wrath, we get the option to turn on heroic mode or keep it in normal mode.
If you turn on heroic mode and kill bosses, you receive heroic versions of that loot which are improved versions of the base item you can get on normal.
Is this actually a good idea? or is there a better alternative?
If I understand correctly, normal → blues, heroic → purples, which sounds reasonable to me.
How else are you supposed to tell the difference between hardcores and casuals?
I screwed up and forgot to put “raid gear” in the title.
I meant for raids, not dungeons.
Harder difficulties should award better rewards in PvE content. There would be little to no incentive to raid heroic mode if not for better items. So imo, it’s a great idea. It allows those who are seeking higher challenges to be rewarded for their time and effort.
More options is good thing.
Is there another way to reward these people, or is this the only one that is satisfying as a raider?
You’d have to go the FFXIV route and not really reward raiders beyond your own self satisfaction. Which personally…isn’t that fun to me.
As much as i want to answer your question, i think what’s going on here is somewhat silly.
Instead, why are you against the idea of better players who invest more time and effort getting better rewards?
I set this thread up in an effort to not express an opinion. That’s why I’m just asking people what they think. I find it easier to hash out my own opinions by hearing what others have to say.
These forums are always at each other’s necks so the immediate belief of anyone responding is that I’m trying to start shit with people. That’s not the case here. I am genuinely having a hard time deciding if heroic and non-heroic gear is a good idea so I wanted to ask people what they think.
Well, if that’s the case, i will elaborate more. Obviously, i still stand with my original opinion.
I think many people want challenge. However, i think people want to be rewarded for their challenges. People love to increase the strength of their character as well. I believe that’s a huge reason as to why people do play WoW. When you level, your character gets stronger. Eventually, you move up from just doing normal dungeons, to heroics.
If normal dungeons awarded the same kind of gear as heroics, people will often choose the path of least resistance. If you can improve your character with less work, most take that route, and those who don’t, might even get laughed at for not playing the game optimally. You could of course argue that as long as you’re having fun, why does it matter.
I don’t think most players need to be stronger, or better, or faster than someone else, but they do need to be all those things than they were last week. If one way to increase your power faster is to increase the difficulty, then i would imagine most players who are more inclined, will opt for that challenge.
As someone who likes to gear as fast as i can in pvp, i try to push rating higher so i can get my gear faster. When Wrath comes out, i do look forward to raiding heroic TotGC, and ICC because i do want my character to be as strong as possible.
I also remember the feeling of seeing someone in that gear back when i first started as a “wrath baby” (boomer talk, for those who weren’t around for that “insult(?)”. I always thought the people in heroic icc gear were honestly really cool at the time. I wanted to be one of those players. Someone who just looks like a bamf, because they did bamf things.
I did Challenge modes in MoP, and although they didnt award good gear, they awarded cosmetically beautiful gear. However, those were 5 mans, and not raids. So i think cosmetic gear might only take people so far.
Just to reiterate though, as i feel like i’ve rambled a bit.
People like to get stronger. Some people will opt for a more challenging mode in order to increase their strength. Rewarding better players with better rewards i think fits that role very nicely. People like to know that their time, effort and skill doesn’t amount to what everyone, or the gen pop can achieve. It’s not that these people want to be feel superior (some do, no doubt), but it’s that being locked in normalcy isn’t exciting, fun, or engaging. It isn’t unique, and it doesn’t feel good. So although cosmetics might be an alternative, i don’t think that’s what most people want at the end of the day when it comes from specifically raiding as a team.
A little side note as well. The top players can raid heroic icc with last tiers gear. There was a blue post back in the day. Blizzard wanted to move away from gear gating, and make raiding more about skill. However, some people who aren’t the top will still need stronger gear. Being able to clear wing 1 on heroic in icc to get a little bit of stronger gear can help make clearing the rest a little easier. A reward to those who aren’t as good, but still better than average, which will in return, or at least the idea is, help them push on through more content as the weeks pass and everyone gets more gear.
I think this pulls me off the fence. I was a heroic ICC raider back in Wrath, but it didn’t start like that. My guild had to shut off heroic for several bosses. I remember Deathbringer’s Will to be a great trinket, and even more amazing if you got it in heroic flavor. I had a heroic DBW on my warrior and I treasured it almost as much as I treasured Shadowmourne. It was just kind of iconic.
Thanks for your opinion.
Now a follow up question… should people be able to turn on and off heroic mode in the middle of their lockout? I will come right out and say I believe they should. Restrictions for the sake of restrictions aren’t very exciting.
My personal opinion is you should always be able to downgrade, you shouldn’t always be able to upgrade. If you clear wing 1 on heroic, and go to normal, once you put normal mode on, you can’t re activate heroic. That’s just how i feel about it. I’m not sure if that’s the right call, nor do i feel strongly about that opinion enough to really defend it, but right now, that’s how i feel about it.
If you get all the way to lk on heroic, but you just can’t kill him but still want the kill for normal loot, i think that’s great. However, your heroic lockout will reset next week and you will have another attempt, assuming you don’t switch it to normal.
plus even the raiders at the very top still do normal mode raids, more gear chances and alts. Not like they’ll be ignored
Actually you’re right. That makes a lot more sense.
We all know a boss’ position in the instance progression doesn’t always correlate with their position on the difficulty scale, so allowing heroic difficulty switch would allow people to essentially skip a hard boss and then siphon heroic loot off the easier next boss.
Agree!
Heroic and non-heroic gear/raids are a good idea. Changing difficulty from heroic to normal within the same lockout is acceptable, but changing it back to heroic can’t be done.
That pretty much solves my entire thread. Thanks for the responses.
Ah, yes, Wrath.
“YOU get a purple! And YOU get a purple! Everyone gets purples!”
It is so bad. Imaging doing the same raid 4 times a week.
To be fair, that’s always been in the game, just to different extents. LK wasn’t even the first xpac to add epics to boss loot tables in normal mode dungeons. In Vanilla, you could get epics before even hitting the level cap. Blackblade of Shahram was equipable at level 58, Circle of Flame was 54, Dragon’s Call, 52, Ironfoe, Mark of the Dragon Lord, etc. Plenty of epics from professions too. There were even quests to get epics by gathering items that dropped in normal dungeons or just getting the required rep. TBC added epics to heroics and a lot more crafted ones. Been easy to get epics since the beginning of the game really.
EXACTLY why I checked out.
10
10H
25
25H
NO THANKS.
Have you considered not doing the raid 4 times a week?