So you’re telling me that wow’s popularity declined immediately after the introduction of group finder?
Data, especially vague data, can be interpreted in multiple ways. Kind of hard to argue that there’s some positive correlation between WoW’s peak numbers and the introduction of group finder when 90% of that sub count was gained before the feature existed.
The post literally doesn’t say that. It says the peak subscriber count was reached after the dungeon finder. In fact it maintained that peak level for a year before it declined after Cataclysm’s launch.
It’s pretty galling to try to misrepresent text you directly quoted but this sort of dishonesty and empty-headedness is typical of people who oppose the dungeon finder.
I thought all the hardcore Classic players were #NoChanges?
#nochanges only applies to things that limit progression. Giving casual players any sort of convenience is a big no-no for the “hardcore classic” players.
They need to put in the LFD at the same patch level that it was introduced in the real game. LFD wasn’t the downfall of the game, it was the sucky expansion followed by a shift in player mentality (grind / work for your reward > I WANT IT NOW!!)
So then what do you think was supposed to be the point of classic?
The point of classic is to be a museum piece. It should be as authentic to the era as reasonably possible. Classic and BC didn’t have LFD so the modern revisiting shouldn’t either. WotLK did have LFD so the modern revisiting should have it. If the point of classic were correcting perceived issues with each era there’s a whole list of issues they should have addressed with Classic and BC.
For example, Dual Spec would have been a demonstrably positive feature to have in Classic and BC with absolutely no downside. People on the classic forums like to make up downsides including the lead developer himself but, as I said, those are made-up. They’re not real issues. However I was in favour of not having dual spec in Classic and BC specifically because they weren’t there in the original.
My comment was specifically about that perceived issue of LFD.
First of all, we don’t know much about how much of the community supports either LFD or opposes it. It’s not like any sound opinion poll has ever been conducted. However, much like the flying debacle in 2015, the response to the stated intention to not add LFD in WotLK classic has been particularly enormous and negative. [This reply to the announcement](Return to the Icy Realm of Northrend in World of Warcraft®: Wrath of the Lich King Classic™ - #5 by Tahil-atiesh], as an example, has over 7 times as many likes as the announcement itself. My own top-rated post of all time is about LFD. In contrast people defending the decision see much worse ratios of likes-to-replies. I would say it’s evident that Blizzard badly misjudged the split of support LFD v.s. opposed LFD. They clearly misjudged it so badly and assumed that the “oppose” faction was so much larger that they didn’t even think to ask about this most contentious of issues in their email surveys. Like I said, this reminds me of flying in WoD: Blizzard was misinformed and walked into a spectacularly unpopular decision right when the game could afford it the least because they misjudged the split of support flying v.s. oppose flying. As it turns out on the forums you mainly hear from the disgruntled people and not the content people i.e. usually it’s a vocal minority. This is why it’s important to gauge community opinion via surveys.
Secondly, LFD is just not a bad feature. In fact it’s a pretty good feature. Mainly for the convenience aspects. I understand that Classic fanboy boomer dads think convenience is generally a bad thing, but it actually matters quite a lot in terms of maintaining longevity. We can see the results of not having LFD in Classic and BC: forming dungeon groups becomes an extremely difficult and negative experience across the board. That happened back in the day as well, which is why they added LFD in the first place. It’s especially more important nowadays because WoW is not a fresh new game any more so participating in the endgame is much more important to the average player. Other MMOs like SWTOR made a big show of not having a cross-realm dungeon finder and that turned out badly because the priorities of the average MMO player have evolved. FFXIV wisely launched with a cross-realm dungeon finder and did very well.
People make a stink about the “social aspect” but that’s just largely uninformed. There is actually an intact social aspects throughout WoW’s history. People are still heavily incentivised to be in a cooperative guild and now there are cross-realm communities. Being able to meet and interact with people who would otherwise be forever locked away behind server barriers is actually in itself an avenue for social aspect. Yes, individual server communities largely diminished (not entirely, though: usually people in each server’s end game scene know each other), but that doesn’t mean that the social aspect of the game is gone as per the boomer dad take.
So to summarise those points: the very premise of WoW no longer being a social game is bad, as is the take that the community widely blames LFD for it.
I can stop reading here, because that is NOT the case.
i see no reason to play wow with retail have no content for another year and the removal of lfd in classic wrath until dragonflight launches next year around april.
mote as well not give blizzard any more sub money and take an over due year long wow break.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the premise of removing LFD for “community purposes?”
To be honest, they only want to remove lfd to extend the time required to play in order to gear and achieve. You’ll spend a lot of time looking for group members in chat. It’s not some integrity move.
They keep tinkering with classic releases in a way that has made them worse. They nerfed vanilla and added the world buffs. They added boosting and transfers in TBC which allowed people to skip the leveling experience which is what helps to build the community. Now removing lfd in wrath which will only serve to extend the time between progression. These aren’t integrity moves.
you keep saying this but it doesnt make it true. what proof do you have? anything?
the server community wasnt what you thought it was, if it was, TBCC would have this magical community…it doesnt. the only thing keeping RDF out will accomplish will be to curtail the numbers of people playing. That isnt something that blizzard needs.
dk nerfs didnt happen at launch. delay them if you want to delay anything. wrath is launching 3.3.5 and LFD came out in 3.3.0. Launch with it.
Just signing my name here to eventually add lfd to wrath classic.
It would hurt no one. The people so hell bent on making their own groups can still do that.
People would rather spam trade chat to make a group for the “social aspect” just so they can run the dungeon without saying a word to each other.
So dumb to not have LFD in the game. People think the community will be the same as it was 13 years ago which is laughable. Like it’s not going to be a bunch of min/max parsing sweatlords like it is now in classic.
They will release at 3.3.5 patch. the raids will be trickled out over time. Not everything is about raiding you know?
i want to know why we are discussing classic problems in retail forums.
personally i do not care about classic at all.
my boost money wont be removed because im not playing classic wrath because they removed rdf.
no point to spend any money in a dead raid log game by phase 2.
This is exactly why I was never going to play it
I think they’re trying to prove that removal will have a large positive effect. However, I doubt they have any data that supports the idea that this change will bring back millions of players who they think left because the group finder made it too easy to get into groups and get geared up.
Most of the people I’ve read who are opposed were saying they had changed their mind because of this change.
Most of the people who support this change were never intending to play wrath classic and still aren’t. They’re retail players who think it will be a good thing to force those people to make friends, because (as we often see said on the forum) casuals have no friends and don’t know how to make friends. The right kind of friends, not the people they know and like and want to play with.
What do you see will be the result of this? Do you think spamming in trade chat for hours, then flying to a dungeon and riding to the entrance for less reward will result in a return to “community”? How, through shared suffering?
Grafting the intentional scarcity of gear from Shadowlands into wrath classic will be its death knell.
communicate and pay gold. you forgot that part. less people playing doesnt help the community one bit