World of Warcraft has loss the RPG Feeling

Community General Discussion
1

Been playing wow since 2009

Wow has been dumb down as stats and skills but become too complex gameplay wise.

You never see weird builds to work(ish) anymore.

You are building to the point that Dps is key at the end, Not actual the game telling you need defensive stats to live. Just kill it faster… In the normal world

It loss that feeling of someone better geared is huge to see and wish you get to that point. Seeing those epics and gems.

The lines of specific roles (tank,healer,dps) is so thin. you can do high content without an healer or tanks sometimes. Than whats the point of roles?

The world loss its meaning to be dangerous, the world scaling to you made no area deadly

Removing some stats like hit and exp, I understand but spirit or reduced the meaning of mit (block,dodge and parry) made the game same feeling over just the 4 stats no matter what your prio is.

Vers is so simple and you dont feel it unless you have high %.

Haste and Crit need to build slower thoughout an expack. Getting to 30% of anything the first patch is way too quick.

Mastery should be rare and each % matter. It should be the main reason you pick a spec, something so cool to you its beats over any reason

Exp: Fire mage. You spells burns the target, Has the chance equals to your mastery to combust your target in flames, when the target dies dealing x damage in 15 yards increasing slowly.

Something cool and free. You could have spells or passives that helps it feel better. Without now most masteries are dead, outdated or not even that cool. Aka brewmaters, oh look more dodge… good on paper.

Its the player insight to the game. Thats why new player don’t stay because each new spell has too many modifiers to worry about and later on be to complex.

Having simple and clean idea of what effects what means so much more. Letting people have time to learn each new spell should matter.

People too worry about dps even the two roles whose main reason being in the game is keeping the dps alive.

Tanks should be aim to reducing damage taken and arggo (NOT their output).
Healers should be worry about Mana and using the most best heal in that moment and removing debuffs.
Dps should be worry about interrupting and stopping stuff going off while doing the most dps. (90% of the damage done in all content)

10 Likes
2

11 Likes
3

ohhh you beat me to a “You lost that RPG feeling” parody.

RNG luck is gone… gone… gone… ohhh ooo ohhhh oo oo

4 Likes
4

It was lost when Cata came out. It is now no longer an MMORPG. Just an MMO for the retail side as they don’t even enforce RP on the RP realms.

7 Likes
5

You never did. The idea that you could feelycraft you own build at any point in this game is something you’ve created in your head. It might be that your build was competitive in your trashcan guild you killed 4 raid bosses in, but I promise, it wasn’t good.

The world was never that dangerous, rather the tools available to classes were so anemic that they just couldn’t handle the world. To return to this you would have to either greatly neuter what classes can do or make mobs massive damage sponges with extremely punishing mechanics. This is something they tried in 10.1 and players hated it.

Pick one.

Threat as a mechanic sucks. Good tanks have always cared about their DPS.

6 Likes
6

World can’t be dangerous because it’s considered beginner content and you don’t want people to quit early before “the good part” while it was most of the content before so people quitting by then meant you still played most of the game. This has been a thing since they stopped caring about leveling when giving level boost/selling them became a thing, if you don’t like leveling just get the boost xd

Defensives stats like block, dodge and parry are simply too op. Moreover, you end up with tanks not taking much damage at all which makes them mostly immortal when they block or dodge everything which is something that could happen in wotlk hence why ICC had a debuff to remove some of it.

The problem with class design is they simply have to design them for too many content, if solo content is meant to be something everyone can do then everyone should have the tools to do it. In Legion with artifact weapons they wanted players to be able to do world content and everything as a healer so they made healer dps much relevant. I agree that designing toward this is a mistake for group content.

I don’t believe tanks shouldn’t worry about dps, a big part of their role is taking aggro and this means encouraging players to play the right way. Moreover, you still want tanks to have a decent impact on the group, not being able to participate as much dps makes them boring.

4 Likes
7

RNGesus, I use to only pray just for you

If you would only give me loot like you used to do, yeah!

1 Like
8

I don’t know about weird builds but there are certainly more builds. Look at the top 50 Assassination rogues in M+ and you’ll probably see 10 different builds. Even if they are variations of the standard hybrid build.

2 Likes
9

The level of skills necessary and talent build contribution to success in old content was so small that anything worked. In comparison, you can literally clear heroics with like 5 talent points in. The game did not change in this aspect, what changes is the fact that there is harder content available now, that simply did not exist before. If vanilla had equally challenging content you would have seen the same exact meta build trend popping up everywhere, in the same sense that anyone who did “end game” content in vanilla used THE EXACT SAME BUILD because reading talents made you pick the best, and the best was VERY OBVIOUS back then. It’s not true that all builds were equal, it’s just that content never required good builds in order to complete the content.

1 Like
10

Uh huh

Yyeeeaaahh?

You are free to not use Chromie time and try to adventure into War Within as a level 15.

And the job of the DPS is to kill the enemies in a timely manner for the other two, a triangle missing a point is just a flat line.

They do, tanks worry about DPS for aggro and then after they are secure and can survive they look to increase their DPS, this has been true since vanilla.

What healer doesn’t do this?

They do-

Okay so you want to just kill people playing tanks and healers.

11

“RPGness” and WoW always feels like a weird topic for me, cause I never considered WoW to be much of a RPG and I’ve been playing it since 2004. Then again, I have some ideas about RPGs that are more than just “you can build characters with stats”.

Though I agree that stats have been too simplified. My character sheet is looking pretty sad these days. It’s also sad that we don’t have reforging anymore, given that the biggest annoyance surrounding it (dancing around hit/exp caps) is no longer a thing.

I don’t think mastery should be rare unless they can add in a bunch of other stats, however. Particularly for DPS if you make it significantly rarer then you’re just further cutting down how little variety in stats gear will have.

I wouldn’t say the gameplay is too complex. Maybe some of the systems surrounding it, as we don’t need a million and one currencies for upgrading our gear. I’m also not a fan of the majority of our class identity coming from talents, but that’s not really a complexity thing.

Some talent trees could also use a clean up. My ret paladin could just be given Blade of Justice and Divine Storm baseline since I’m forced to spend those points on those talents anyway, and if you’re gonna design my whole spec around requiring Wake of Ashes just to be functional then make that baseline too.

2 Likes
12

The bees (and nearby storm wolves) in Khaz Algar were pretty dangerous when TWW was released. There was a never ending supply of complaints about this. Though, I thought having max level subzones would keep me on my toes. However, I had expected the nerubian city to be more dangerous at the beginning and that did disappoint.

As for RPG, this is what you make of it. Many only want a lobby game for their mythic+ and raids. Others will go out and find adventure. Can be a hard line for a developer to meet the needs of every player though.

1 Like
13

I wonder if that RPG feeling is with my toothe brush, cause I can’t find that either.

14

I mean I would argue that Legion tried to enhance that RP element by adding class questlines and class halls. If you aren’t an endgame junkie that only cares about endgame, I believe the RP elements are there.

15

I understand what you’re saying, and I still really hate world scaling. I liked having zones I couldn’t go into until I was “big enough,” and I liked going back through zones I’d outleveled to ride through when they were no longer a threat.

I liked how cohesive and massive the old world felt and how relevant to story and daily travel the zones all remained.

That said…in Vanilla, there were no weird builds that worked. None. There were whole classes that were irrelevant to end game because balance wasn’t even attempted. Shadow priests couldn’t raid. Only one per 40-man for shadow weaving, which they used as a battery for the warlocks. The debuff cap meant that several specs were utterly neutered and could not even do their own top damage.

So for a retail example let’s take my own spec. I’m a Resto Druid. There are three different ways that restoration druids can spec out that completely change how we heal our groups. All three are “viable.” Now, every spec has a “correct” or optimal talent layout because math is math. One will always be superior in a vacuum with perfect play. There has always been and will always be a “best.”

But retail is more complex, as you said. The gameplay is now such that “perfect play” isn’t really a thing. No more “frostbolt until oom, evocation, frostbolt until oom, wand during intermission, repeat” rotations. No one plays perfectly–not even the world first-er types. The complexity of the gameplay and rotations and talent trees has allowed for spec diversity.

I don’t play the “correct” talent spread for resto druid raid healing very well. It depends on some overlapping of flourish with other things and it depends on regrowth spamming in certain windows. I’ve done it. I used that spec for several weeks…but I don’t play it very well or line up the windows perfectly. I play my preferred spec much better (Soul/Wild Growth heavy with more traditional stacking of HoTs and very little emphasis on Lifebloom). I have better throughput when I play my way, and it’s a completely different playstyle than the one being recommended as “best.”

In Vanilla - Cata, that wasn’t a thing. I couldn’t have done a weird spec like that without being a carry. In retail, I’m doing an alternate spec, and I am not being carried.

The weird spec people in 40-man content during Vanilla were being HARD carried by the 20 guys who showed up in all the right gear with the right consumables and the right talents.

BC and afterward, when the raids got smaller, it was harder to carry people who wanted to be the special nuggets who did something different.

BfA and beyond, we’ve had a LOT more choice and there are usually lots of options for people to cater to talent preference. The TWW talent layouts give a LOT of choice.

All of that to say: We have more weird spec choice now than we ever have.

2 Likes
16

You did, Spell prot, shaman tanks. etc. YOu had people want to play them and made them work compare to the other specs.

… levels made the world dangerous and elites

^^^

They did that in bc toio because they never reduce the % you needed since the start so of course they needed to.

But its main goal of most and its not enjoyable when you have to worry about it on top of everything else now.

Not what i mean as weird like spell prot pally or shaman tanks.

But most People didnt know how to play and what was the best without thotbot and even though that wasnt great. Thats why if you go back you seen prot pally with spell power or have shamans off tanking. Its wasnt totally obivous to people.

Most of the casual player. They just try to outheal everything.

most don’t if you look at the casual player

that would be the key of beating tanks and healers to outplay their toolkit as being alot more tanker to reduce your damage.

They can been solo by tanks hitting max leve (i did it on a brewmaster l. That not hard to do. Dangerous meaning 1 shot just by the level of the mobs.

17

To be fair when I say that I’m talking about player driven narratives where the player has the power to influence the way the story plays out.

So games like Baldur’s Gate, KotoR, Fallout, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, etc.

The term “RPG” is already vaguely defined and I’m not about to insist my definition is the “correct” one or anything, but I also don’t really think of most jRPGs as RPGs either.

Like, Final Fantasy 7 is an amazing game but I’m still playing a pre-defined character going through a pre-defined story. The only choice I get is who I go on a date with.

So Legion having more class fantasy stuff is cool, but isn’t really what I’d call making the game more RPG.

18

Fair

This where we’ll agree to disagree

19

it never quite reaches the peaks i get from let’s say a poe fresh league even when a fresh xpack releases.

hard to pin point why but i notice that poe tickles my brain quite a bit more.
wow feels more like a steady very low amount of dopamine without real bursts.

dec6th i get to let my brain have fun for a bit :wink: got the poe2 EA invite.

20

For what it’s worth I’d definitely appreciate another round of Legion’s class fantasy, regardless of if I would personally call that RPG or not.

Class fantasy should definitely make more of a return to the game, rather than our classes just being vehicles for endgame performance meters.

1 Like