I disagree. They didn’t listen to the streamer crowd. Like the streamer crowd, the few devs who play the game are long-term elite players who agree on all these things.
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Some of the streamer crowd were asking exactly for some of the things changed.
Titanforging, less RNG, deterministic gearing, too much loot. I probably could name more but I don’t watch those guys all that much. But preach and that annoying salemans guy were asking for these things.
Yes, I noticed that as well. It is odd about alpha in particular though, if you say something negative about content like the tower you get attacked on the forums (although it could have to do with the pack mentality mentioned below as well since almost everyone was praising torghast). Although, if you disagree with what the ‘group’ is asking for you will also get attacked - they are a strange bunch in alpha.
I never liked Torghast from the beginning and said so and I can’t remember the exact comment but it was something along the lines my feedback wasn’t welcome.
Few things, just off the top of my head.
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Anima isnt the new azerite power, its soul ash. Soul ash is much much worse to grind than azerite ever was.
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World quests are god awful now compared to the Legion/BfA model. On a good day, I could get done my emissary in legion or bfa in under 10min. Some of these multistep world quests take longer than that.
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Why compare cloak upgrade to renown? They’re not nearly the same thing. We have actual legendaries in SL that we also need to upgrade through the, again, awful soul ash grind.
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Each have issues, but anything is improved over bfa. Thats the point, we deserve better than an okay effort for shadowlands. We need good or great.
No, soul ash is front layered, the first 3 layers of a regular torghast run gives you alot of soul ash while doing all 8 gives you not as much more as anyone else doing basic runs
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To me this expansion was catered to raiders. Which in and of itself doesn’t actually bother me. The problem for me is part of catering to them absolutely nuked what I liked to do in game.
I was a world quest hero and I don’t like instanced content. I may be a tiny portion of the player base but I just don’t get why they had to absolutely crush my end game sad and pathetic as some of you may find it to make that group happy.
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Which you’ll be endlessly grinding, as new ilevel upgrades for legendaries are released with later patches.
Ash is also capped weekly. Outside of getting lucky if you’re NF or NL, players are getting 1140 soul ash per week and that’s it, no matter how many times they run Torghast – which is why there’s no reason to run Torghast more than 2x on a given week.
They removed the endless climb in Torghast which could’ve been something to keep players entertained after their ash collection, and instead gave TC with a fixed number of layers and 4 total rewards over 144 floors.
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Don’t need no reminder. Shadowlands was supposed to be better and it’s appearing like it’s not very much better because they’re repeating a lot of the design choices that made BFA kind of crappy along with a story that isn’t appealing to people. I honestly had more fun in earlier expansions where I could switch out characters and go where I wanted to go to level instead of following the fixed path in the amusement park design they’re doing these days.
WoW has become the game people on these forums used to taunt others to go out and play while telling them they’ll be back in two weeks. Only this time there’s nothing to come back to (except for classic to a point) because people never left. It’s a stinker for sure…hic!
A fun passtime is to go to Wayback Machine and look at the forums of yore.
Literally nothing changes. There is always a contingent of players who hate the game. If we’re lumping the forums together, then there has never been an expansion - including the original game - that was any good.
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We’re forgetting one major thing here…this is GD. The majority of the posts on here are from a minority of the population, and are usually disgruntled or trolling.
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no one said we wanted no loot
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basically everyone who claims they get no loot, somehow - and i know this is probably shocking - have a bunch of loot
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A whole lot of whataboutism can be found here. 
I miss those quests 
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So you got no improvement. Or you can do more things and still get duplicate slots (within the same vault or week after week.) Meanwhile loot from non vault sources is less and bonus rolls that help with specific loot targeting are gone.
Except you could get a lot more than 1 item to wear at a time with TR.
Win fo sho
Wich a fair amount of people think is worse than visions.
Which you can only use one of, but you could have a lot more (and better) corruptions.
We’re not playing classic
1 kill WQ and kiddie turtle puzzles vs multi stage WQs that take 20 mins each. Big downgrade.
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You literally can not get duplicate in all 9 spots stop trying to do 2 options and maximize your options
20 minutes on a blue world quest that has challenging mobs to attack is justified, you only get like 1-2 a day so this isn’t a problem
Plus it was the same forums that despised Saving turtles from the water
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so Im in a pit with poisonous spiders and to remedy that you move me into a pit with poisonous snakes and Im supposed to be happy?
BOTH systems are BAD.
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My biggest gripe is the loot system, i was stuck at around 196 -197 for like 2 weeks because the vault didn’t give me really upgrades , and m+ dropped either something I couldn’t use or didn’t drop anything. I finally decided to just buy boes to help . Its a bit annoying anytime you mention loot problems , you always have someone who says " just pvp " . I shouldn’t have to pvp to do pve
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Ah yes, the technical verbatim argument. They don’t mean exact duplicates, and you know that. But you can get 3x of the same type of item in the same category. And just to counter what would obviously be your next reply:
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/3-rings-from-m-in-great-vault/838236