Watching these 25 second Gnomer boss kills by groups 4 levels lower than the boss is pretty funny. High level dungeons like Strat will be harder but people really overestimated how difficult Classic was going to be.
Like, I cleared Strat just fine as a freshly dinged 60 clicking noob in 2005. Took a long time but it got done and after a few gear upgrades it was just a joke.
The thing is this also. No one really understood the monster that 1.12 is/was/could have been. Everyone was waiting for TBC.
I know in retrospect that in my wildest imagination, I could not have expected things to have been nerfed that much. It’s borderline dumb. I certainly hope that Blizzard finds something on their end. A “ninja” patch would be especially fitting.
Unnerfed Strat scholo wasn’t as hard as it was unforgiving. One wipe + insane respawn rates + trash = GG.
Adding HP doesn’t make a fight harder just longer. Longer fights for the sake of making it appear harder do nothing but turn people away and make them angry. The only way to make something more difficult is to change the damage of attacks/abilities. But then you have to go through every mob and try to figure out after we made this change it now effects 15 other changes and you start opening the door to other changes as a result and move away from the core philosophy that they said in the Blizzcon last year they don’t want to open Pandora’s box for making changes.
How much do you propose they buff the bosses in MC/BWL? Should Nefarian have more health than Patchwerk? Is that authentic? Will it feel like an authentic experience going from BWL to AQ40 and the bosses having significantly less health?
I suggested 15%, which would give Nefarian 2.6 million still far less than Patchwerk’s 4.3 million. Ahn’qiraj is already tuned for 16 debuff slots as is Naxxramas. If anything a tiny bump for new talents in 1.12 for Ahn’qiraj. Maybe 5%.
Adding HP doesn’t make a fight harder just longer.
I have to point out this is quite untrue. Not only does it increase the chance of people going out of mana or dying in the case of Ragnaros it would mean a much higher chance of actually having to do phase 2, which is clearly a significant increase to the difficulty.
What would be the point in making intentional easier entry level raids hard?
They’ll still be easy with a 15% buff. Just not silly easy.
The point of adding HP in this instance is to prevent zerg strategy, as in “ok we cannot bruteforce this mechanic (the sons) so we need to deal with it as intended” which would be collapse/banish/reposition ready for the re-emerge. it might instead be appropriate to force a submerge at 50%.
The fight is a super simple fight (by todays standard), the only real important bit is the transition- collapse, deal with adds, reposition… without that it is a tank and spank fight.
Thats ok, it just means they will need to advance phase 2-3 all the quicker.
“Narrative” as if it isn’t true. Look at the playerbase of today and tell me they’re the same.
Tell me you still have 5-10 players on dialup
Tell me you’re not using KTM/DBM/BigWigs
Tell me half of your raid gets 10 FPS on their pentium 3
Tell me consumable use isn’t vastly encouraged compared to what it used to be.
They’ve changed. Accept it.
Good news: it further encourages players to bring what’s fun to them rather than what is “viable”/top
Ironsides, I saw your math on this subject with respect to DPS. Loved the post btw.
Curious if you’ve done the math, or could do it, with respect to priests 1.1 vs 1.12. and how it may effect MC/Rag/Ony end game raiding?
From my memory of raiding in 2005, priests going OOM directly caused a large percentage of the wipes.
I don’t recall this happening on pservers. On pservers, wipes were due to other reasons. The healers always seemed have plenty of mana left. Could hardly spend it fast enough. The goal seemed to change to “winning” the healing meters which had us spending a ton of heals, unnecessarily, topping off warlocks between pulls as they siphoned their own life.
Is there a way to demonstrate how much the priests changes, 1.1 vs 1.12, effected raid boss encounters?
If it helps with the calculations, in 2005 pre BWL patch, I remember having right at 9k mana (which was the most on the server and why I can specifically remember it). Most other raiding healers had between 7k to 8k.
Also, I remember spirit wasn’t a thing back then, whereas on pservers it was. We all thought spirit builds were useless back then. Had a good buddy that went spirit but he did it as a joke and to be different. I think there may have been a patch that revamped spirit?
Lastly, I remember the healing team was mostly comprised of priests with a few shaman who seemed like second class healers. Druids were basically non existent back then. Maybe 1 druid per raid.
They didn’t take hybrids as dps in vanilla in most cases. Asking for content to be faceroll when it wasn’t on it’s release is asking for changes.
I’m not going to lie–priests aren’t my forte, but I still feel like I can give some insight as to why you’re not seeing it on private servers whereas it was common enough on 04-06 WoW but with respect to the differences between talent changes, I’d be making garbage up.
It all comes down to the difference in consumable usage from 04-06 versus the private server scene.
http://web.archive.org/web/20080818233400/http://elitistjerks.com:80/f15/t9383-raiding_consumables_dilemma/
The above gives a better explanation than I could ever give but the quick TL;DR is this: a healer chain chugging major mana potions has stupid huge MP/5 allowing them to spam higher ranked heals for longer.
From the shaman’s perspective, their tier 1 gear set gives a converted total of 119/mp5
Their tier 3 set gives a converted total of 277/mp5
Nightfin Soup = 8 mana/5
Mageblood Potion = 12 mana/5
Brilliant Mana Oil = 12 mana/5 and 25 +healing = 16 mana/5
Major Mana Potions = 1800 mana every 2 minutes = 75 mana/5 (!!)
Dark/Demonic Runes = 1200 mana every 2 minutes = 50 mana/5
Assuming a healer is using the above 5 consumables on CD, they gain a net of 161 mp/5. So this basically means try hard healers can, at least as far as shamans are concerned, have the healing power equivalent of Naxx geared shamans while they’re still chugging along in Molten Core.
This massive boon to their healing abilities keeps everyone alive in battle and allows raid members to sacrifice resistance/stamina gear for pure glass cannon builds.