I vaguely remember someone a long time ago in some thread about quel’thalas and the scourge saying that quel’thalas at least sent priests to help arthas 
and was not “running” away from a fight…
I just play blood elves but boy not even I can say that those 2 priests that helps arthas were the best quel’thalas could do as a nation to help lordaeron…
But with Gilneas around the Scourge as an entity might never have risen at all. The Alliance as a whole might not have been as over worked and over taxed and may have been less susuptible to cult of the damned influence.
We also saw that even Garithos managed to put up a decent resistence. What more if it had the backing of Gilneas? At least long enough for its southern allies to truly help.
Hell worse case scenario it slows Arthas’ progess/the Lich King’s plan long enough that he just ends up dead/powerless because of his plan was slowly weakening him because of the hole caused by Frostmorne on his ice prison.
Actually pretty sure people hold that against them too(that no one particularly liked their isolationiat policy) Hence Garithos being quite racist to them.
Garithos was just a racist. Period. He hated everyone that wasn’t a human. He even hated the dwarves mind you.
The scourge was an inside job from various powerful players working together to bring about the second coming of the legion, ner’zhul with his mind power seducing ppl from across 2 continents, the dreadlords working to secure that the plan worked, and the cult that at its head had a mage powerful enough to challenge antonidas, do you truly believed that Gilneas alone could deal with them all together? Even if Gilneas was a powerhouse so powerful that it could match the horde and alliance combined, the scourge had one advantage, secrecy, no one knew the scourge even existed, they had all the time in the world to pull up a plan and cripple Gilneas to either destroy it or turn them into the undead before lordaeron.
But that was never the case, even so that the the leadership of the scourge simply ignores gilneas altogether, so their forces even if combined with lordaeron’s would not matter much in the end.
Here you are being disingenuous, you know we are talking about two completely different times(with gilneas living two realities), the first is the start of the war and the second is several months after the battle of mount hyjal.
Let us start them…
Like I said in the previous post at the start of the war the whole advantage of the scourge was not strength or number of their army but secrecy and information on the target.
The scourge planned the invasion years before it even began, arthas being chosen was the “chosen one” when he was born, so about 2 decades to prepare with a hell lot of helpers from demons to rogue mages and greedy nobles, gilneas would not help as much as you think since they would be in the dark like lordaeron was and we know that at the time lordaeron’s army was better than the scourge but they did not knew what they were up against and fed their cities with plagued grain, the same would have happen to gilneas if they got into the war.
As for the time of the rule of the triumvirate drealords( balnazzar, detheroc and Varimathras) we know that the scourge was not at its peak, not ib lordaeron at least.
Why?
1st the bulk of the scourge was sent to Kalimdor to aid in the conquest of the continet by Archimonde and this army was obliterated leaving only pockets of undead lost in the wilderness never to return to EA.
2nd the dreadlord trio never cared to keep up the work arthas was doing when ahead of the scourge, they actually did not cared for the undead, they were bored and waited for MONTHS for a signal from lord archimonde, giving space and time for the human resistance to clear up holdouts and gather reinforcements from both the dwarves and quel’thalas and mass recruiting those still alive and capable of fighting, while those who could not were leaving through the mountains
3rd at this time gilneas was already dealing with the curse of the worgen, they were in no better situation than those outside of the wall, so they would not be able to help it would take years, so long that in fact the lich king was already killed by the time they got they things together and became a “nation” again.
And about slowing the lich king, perhaps they could have slowed but if the paladins with the light at their side and a weapon that cleaved so many undead to ash did not slowed the advance of the scourge what would gilneas do?
No, but I think the Alliance as a more cohesive and less fractured entity might have been able to deal with it much more effectively.
Not really all the time in the world. The moment the Lich King tossed out frostmorne from his body he had a timeframe. And even without that little detail his Legion masters were rather impatient folk and probably would not tolerate too much delays from him.
No, I think fundamentally misunderstand and assume that when I talk about “not having the wall” it means I am talking about simply the Third war when I am implicitly telling you that I think that without said wall it means Gilneas would have remained members of the Alliance and the Alliance as a whole would not be in such a state that the cult could ever take root. The cult needed an overworked and disenfranchised masses to work and with a more prosperous Alliance it would likely not have succeeded in said endeavour.
That the Third War itself could have been altogether avoided or at least not escalated to the point it did. Hell, maybe with the armies of Gilneas aiding Dalaran, it would never have fallen and by extension the Legion could never have entered.
Narratively, to me, at least, the story of the scourge is written, as an unstoppable plague. And, as with most fiction, you can’t really argue about “reality” because it doesn’t exist.
Except we ultimately proved the Scourge could be stopped. So both from a narrative and meta stand point it does not make sense to think of the Scourge that way.
That it would make sense for Genn to doubt his wall was ever a good idea.
There is only the narrative standpoint. The story is what the story-teller is telling you.
And they were stopped after Lordearon fell. In classic Blizzard plot mode. An unforeseen, and/or unavoidable, disaster happens. This causes the plucky heroes to rally and find ways to stop the unstoppable.
And the story teller is telling you Genn thinks he might have been wrong. So being so self confident that building the wall was the “right call” seems antithetical to what the story wants to say.
And in said timeline Liam might be alive. Again the regret of Genn and one of the reasons why he now think his wall was a bad idea afterall.
In which case, you didn’t like how it was written. But the story is still the story. You complaints how it was written doesn’t change what it is saying.
And in said timeline Liam might be alive. Again the regret of Genn and one of the reasons why he now think his wall was a bad idea afterall.
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What does Liam being alive, or not, has to do with stopping the scourge from destroying the Kingdom of Lordaeron?
No, the story evolved. And that story being that the Scourge were never unbeatable and now we have proof they could have been beaten. That is just canon lore now.
It has everything to do with why he thinks the wall was a failure. Again, my point here is people saying the wall was a good idea. And Liam likely would still be alive now had that wall never been built. That would be the greatest proof to Genn it was a horrible idea.
The story could have evolved. The story is the “reality” and if the writer(s) evolve it, then it adds to the reality.
But I don’t see any evidence of it here. [In spite of your declaring it “cannon” :-)] The passage is about Genn’s feelings. It reads as Genn’s opinion. Not the writer telling you and alternate course of history.
I mean, it isn’t even a statement.
Genn Greymane says: There are days it feels right, and days I wonder… what if I had not built that wall?
Genn Greymane says: Would Lordaeron still stand? Would you still be…
He is asking “if”.
And I see it as Genn thinking of the possibility. That maybe they could have done it. That yes this can be BOTH a opinion and an alternate course of history. One where Genn wasnt so stubborn/didnt lock himself behind a wall.
That the troubles of Gilneas can be directly linked to him deciding to go in hiding and ignoring the wider world. Especially his allies.
Seeing the possibility doesn’t means that it could have worked either or that he knows all the details about the Scourge even at that time.
Let’s say that he decided to not build the wall.
The dreadlors could have targeted Gilneas too as the country could have posed a threat to their plans.
Therefore the probability to see Gilneas suffering the same fate as Lordaeron is very high.
The Scarlets are popular for the player base. Some because there are players that love cosplaying them, and for others they’re substitutes for the bigots they’d like to punch face in real life. It’s a win-win evrery time they show up. Just as there will always be people wearing the German swastika, there will always be Scarlets.
Orcs and Friends vs Humans and Friends was the core of the game inherited from the RTS. The Night Elf saga upended that for the Alliance side, just as the Horde Council did for the Horde. Both faction seem to be influx given Anduin’s extended absence from the throne, Tyrande and Malfurion on their honeymoon, and Thrall’s return from his retirement.
Honestly, the Horde never really felt like Orc & Friends to me
At least nowhere near as much as the Alliance seems to feel like Human & Friends
And I never understood this feeling. Alleria and Kurdran were never treated as inferior to Dannath/Turaylon or Khadgar. And thanks to Anduin, we literally have Genn/Velen/Magni as father figures to Anduin and in a way that makes Moira almost like a sister to him. While Jaina ends up being his aunt and clearly Malfurion/Tyrande feels a bond with him as well.
The Alliance is as much a family as the Horde.
A family to anduin.
The horde is not just the leadership that feels that they are a family but the interactions between all races and how each one is supportive of the other’s plight.
So the dwarves giving a home to the gnomes after they lost gnomeragan, the dwarves making a train to help Stormwind rebuild, Stormwind sending its armies to help its allies even though it had little to gain from it, the night elves saving the gilneans and in turn them returning the favor mean what to you?
The humans/dwarves/gnomes are literally cousins due to the fact they are all decendants of titanforged.