Why the level 58 boost is bad for the game #stoptheboost

[Leonethas-archimonde]

@Classyz-kurinnaxx

Not always true, not that everyone uses it the same but I used it with friends back in the day to boost ourselves multiple characters across multiple accounts that we then later all merged on to 1 battle.net and one account. Again not everyone has to do it that way and maybe new players will legitimately use it, just it can and would be abused by existing players.

You kind of missed the point but I will confess it may have been to imprecise wording. ‘New player’ meant the new account in the RAF system. Abuse of RAF is a whole other conversation. Since I am pro somechanges, the middleground I might prefer would be RAF XP bonus as a one time use ever for every account for 90 days for free on any character that isn’t actually RaF (you just activate it on your account for free for 90 days). No mount would be involved here.

@Classyz-kurinnaxx

The limit was how many times you wanted to connect a new account.

But the point is new account was a separate from the other, they just shared the same login then you selected wow 1 or wow 2.

@Classyz-kurinnaxx

Making people jump through more hoops doesn’t hurt in game.

This is not the argument you first made that you’re quoting my reply from.

@Classyz-kurinnaxx

Me logging into their website or using the shop from battle.net for my game time purchase has no effect on my in game performance.

This is not a gameplay convenience though, level boosting is.

@Classyz-kurinnaxx

I remember the cards back in wrath going for $100-150

I don’t think blizzard would even put them up for this much.

@Classyz-kurinnaxx

Sure but again its either you go through blizzard or you go through another site

it’s not for that reason, although it’s a small part of it. It’s more so to do with the fact that the TCG has inherent value beyond the digital good element.

@Classyz-kurinnaxx

If someone is making the money here why shouldn’t it be them with their own shop?

because blizzard has all the power over the design of the game and rewarding them for monetisation creates an incentive for them to further design the game around monetisation.

@Classyz-kurinnaxx

Just a reminder again you can’t trade or sell hearthstone cards so an argument could be made that that does not work either because they were tradeable and sellable irl.

The mounts are tradable and sellable in-game. The out-of-game changes are irrelevant to me. I’m not concerned about recreating external factors such as what computers people play TBC Classic on.

@Ziryus-doomhammer

Right and those answers quickly just devolved into what I said, some people are vaguely offended that someone else didn’t level the “right” way.

That’s not an in game problem with boosting.

That’s your misconception of what my arguments ‘devolved’ into.

@Faelis-arygos

and a video of a YouTube personality telling you how to feel

this statement shows how truly uneducated you are. This post was originally made on the EU forums roughly around a month before Madseason’s video came out. The video was edited into the EU and US thread after the fact. My ideas are my own, the only unoriginal people here are you lot, defaulting to the same troll-esk arguments I’ve heard a million times already.

@Redheadchild-kul-tiras

Every single point in the op is wrong lol… I don’t have time to go into details now, but hopefully I can get to it soon.

Better get to it! I’m sure it’ll be nothing I’ve not already debunked before.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Leonethas-archimonde

That’s your misconception of what my arguments ‘devolved’ into.

/shrug ultimately at this point the boost is happening.

We’ll see whether the fear mongering proves to be true or not. And I’m sure that if it doesn’t you’ll be offering a humble apology.

[Leonethas-archimonde]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

We’ll see whether the fear mongering proves to be true or not

Well due to your confirmation bias, we both know your conclusion is going to be a decisive no. Especially considering you decided to call it ‘fear mongering’.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Leonethas-archimonde

@Ziryus-doomhammer

We’ll see whether the fear mongering proves to be true or not

Well due to your confi rmation bias, we both know your conclusion is going to be a decisive no.

Well given that you can’t even explain how you’ll identify a boosted character from any other I think it’s going to be pretty hard for you to actually quantify any negative impact from boosts.

But hey I might be wrong, I just find it highly unlikely.

[Faelis-arygos]

@Leonethas-archimonde

this statement shows how truly uneducated you are

Belittling the opposition does not make your argument stronger

@Leonethas-archimonde

This post was originally made on the EU forums roughly around a month before Madseason’s video came out.

Good for it? You said the OP + all the other people making arguments. “All the other people” includes people who have continued to argue after the Madseason video

@Leonethas-archimonde

My ideas are my own

So that’s why you felt it necessary to quote a different thread from the start and edit the Madseason video in later, eh?

Stop deflecting and making up excuses, either answer the original question or just admit you don’t have any argument and save a shred of dignity

[Leonethas-archimonde]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

Well given that you can’t even explain how you’ll identify a boosted character from any other I think it’s going to be pretty hard for you to actually quantify any negative impact from boosts.

You still seem incapable of understanding that you don’t need to be able to visually identify a boosted character in order for problems that boosting causes / makes worse to exist.

@Faelis-arygos

Belittling the opposition does not make your argument stronger

If you make a statement that is factually and observably untrue, does that not make you uneducated in regards to this topic? That isn’t shallow degradation, that’s a valid critique.

@Faelis-arygos

includes people who have continued to argue after the Madseason video

but that doesn’t mean that I can’t think for myself and that I get my ideas from madseason which is along the lines of what you originally said.

@Faelis-arygos

So that’s why you felt it necessary to quote a different thread from the start

The EU thread is my thread -_-

@Faelis-arygos

edit the Madseason video in later, eh?

The madseason video was edited into both threads simultaneously by me.

@Faelis-arygos

Stop deflecting and making up excuses, either answer the original question or just admit you don’t have any argument and save a shred of dignity

‘answer my unnecessary question / meet my unreasonable demand otherwise all your arguments are wrong’.

I’ve answered it already, once you’ve read the near 1k replies on the EU thread in both the classic & TBC general discussion forums + all my replies to people on this thread then we can re-evaluate any unanswered questions.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Leonethas-archimonde

You still seem incapable of understanding that you don’t need to be able to visually identify a boosted character in order for problems that boosting causes / makes worse to exist.

If you can’t even identify a boosted character it’s pretty hard to say a problem is because of boosting now isn’t it?

But now we’re getting into your confirmation bias, you have some vague feeling boosting is bad but can’t actually explain the problem in a grounded reality.

[Drinknblink-whitemane]

He feels it in his soul!

[Leonethas-archimonde]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

If you can’t even identify a boosted character it’s pretty hard to say a problem is because of boosting now isn’t it?

It isn’t because the problems that boosting will make worse will be pretty self-evident. Like, for example, if boosting results in an increase in the amount of players in HFP at launch, then they will create an increased demand for layering which has severe economical effects and will also contribute to lag and over-competition. You might not be able to tell that the players you are competing with at any given moment are boosted, but you know they exist and you know they are contributing.

Same with bots. If there’s suddenly an influx of level 58 rogues in BRD when the boost comes out, you might not be able to confirm that all of those rogues are boosters, just like you can’t confirm they’re bots, but you can be pretty confident that they are.

I also told you that the answer to whether boosts were visually identifiable was yes AND no because a new boosted toon will most likely be very easily identifiable due to their pre-determined armour and level and mount.

[Drinknblink-whitemane]

So your argument is that the game is too good and too many people want to play it?

LUL

[Leonethas-archimonde]

@Drinknblink-whitemane

So your argument is that the game is too good and too many people want to play it?

No, my argument is that the game wasn’t designed with boosting in mind and that the over-population of HFP is just ONE small problem with boosting. That’s what we like to call an example!

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Leonethas-archimonde

@Drinknblink-whitemane

So your argument is that the game is too good and too many people want to play it?

No, my argument is that the game wasn’t designed with boosting in mind and that the over-popula tion of HFP is just ONE small problem with boosting. That’s what we like to call an example!

We will almost certainly have layering at launch just like in classic, so that will be a non issue.

[Drinknblink-whitemane]

This version of the game wasnt designed at all for servers having 15k+ people on them, hence layering.

Also you cant actually argue that a boost will increase botting, there is 0 evidence it will, Classic is full of bots and Classic had no paid boost.

[Leonethas-archimonde]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

We will almost certainly have layering at launch just like in classic, so that will be a non issue.

I said it will contribute to the problem. CONTRIBUTE. Please learn the meaning of words. Thank you!

@Drinknblink-whitemane

This version of the game wasnt designed at all for servers having 15k+ people on them, hence layering.

True which, imo, was another flaw with the way blizzard did Classic but because blizzard made this mistake, they need to be extra careful when it comes to making more mistakes that make the existing problems worse.

@Drinknblink-whitemane

Also you cant actually argue that a boost will increase botting, there is 0 evidence it will, Classic is full of bots and Classic had no paid boost.

Did I say it was a new problem or did I say it made the problem worse because I’m pretty sure I’ve said on many occasions that it makes the problem WORSE. It seems you also need to learn the meaning of the word ‘contribute’.

[Faelis-arygos]

@Leonethas-archimonde

If you make a statement that is factually and observably untrue, does that not make you uneducated in regards to this topic

You’re absolutely correct. However, nothing I said was “factually and observably untrue”, so you are simply insulting me for no reason

@Leonethas-archimonde

but that doesn’t mean that I can’t think for myself and that I get my ideas from madseason which is along the lines of what you originally said.

You did not say just you. You said yourself and other people arguing on your side. Of all the hills to die on…

@Leonethas-archimonde

The EU thread is my thread -_-

And I’m supposed to assume someone is paying for an EU and a US account? Your OP does not say it’s your thread, it says

@Leonethas-archimonde

this is a post from the EU forums

So that one’s on you, bud

@Leonethas-archimonde

The madseason video was edited into both threads simultaneously by me.

And that has…what to do with the quote preceding it?

@Leonethas-archimonde

I’ve answered it already

Cool, so you should know where the answer is already. Instead of making an

@Leonethas-archimonde

unreasonable demand

and telling people they have to go through several hundreds of posts to single out a specific one

But you don’t actually want to do that, do you? It’s so easy to just keep deflecting and say you’ve already done something than to just do it and move on

[Minigun-area-52]

One, the economy is already borked beyond measure. Two, layering doesn’t screw up the economy. People abusing layering get an unfair advantage but that’s a different issue. Three, more people playing is better. That said I suspect there won’t be many new people join because of boosts. The vast majority will be people that were going to play either way.

[Drinknblink-whitemane]

@Leonethas-archimonde

Did I say it was a new problem or did I say it made the problem worse because I’m pretty sure I’ve said on many occasions that it makes the problem WORSE. It seems you also need to learn the meaning of the word ‘contribute’.

Prove it will?

You cant, thats the point, no one knows the financial status of the bots and what benefits them more.

All i know is my server has like 800 million gold for sale without any boosts.

Why if a server has that much gold available for sale would they be in a rush to have more bots at max level instead of just leveling them and saving money?

Regardless thats still irrelevant because you simply cant count the bots to see an increase, so your assumption is based on data thats not factual.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Leonethas-archimonde

I said it will contribute to the problem. CONTRIBUTE. Please learn the meaning of words. Thank you!

And all you can do is speculate on how much. Will it even be enough to necessitate a single extra layer? Or will it make no difference at all. I’m just not seeing these massive swarms of boosted characters you seem to.

But hey once again that should be readily apparent within minutes of playing in HFP, if you see a majority of players in boosted gear. If not well turns out you were wrong.

[Leonethas-archimonde]

@Faelis-arygos

You’re absolutely correct. However, nothing I said was “factually and observably untrue”, so you are simply insulting me for no reason

@Faelis-arygos

a video of a YouTube personality telling you how to feel

This was untrue when applied to me in the context of this thread.

@Faelis-arygos

You did not say just you. You said yourself and other people arguing on your side.

Yes, I did, but you didn’t

‘‘a YouTube personality telling YOU how to feel’’

@Faelis-arygos

So that one’s on you, bud

it’s linked in the OP on this thread so it’s actually on you.

@Faelis-arygos

And that has…what to do with the quote preceding it?

because you suggested that I copied the thread from someone else which made the idea that I didn’t also just copy madseason’s video for my ideas questionable.

@Faelis-arygos

Cool, so you should know where the answer is already.

Yes, I do know. The answers are the ones that I have given. All you have to do is go read them.

@Faelis-arygos

and telling people they have to go through several hundreds of posts to single out a specific one

Let me flip that on you. After I’ve spent many hours writing hundreds of posts to people making the exact same arguments as you, how it reasonable of you to expect me to repeat them over and over again?

@Faelis-arygos

But you don’t actually want to do that, do you?

2 things. Firstly, I don’t but not for the reason you are implying and secondly, your question wasn’t all that specific. It was pretty vague and can be answered by pretty much validating every part of my philosophy around the boost.

@Minigun-area-52

Two, layering doesn’t screw up the economy. People abusing layering get an unfair advantage but that’s a different issue.

How players can use a system is absolutely the fault of said system. That’s game design 101.

@Drinknblink-whitemane

Prove it will?

You cant, thats the point, no one knows the financial status of the bots and what benefits them more.

Your pulling the same rubbish that all the other trolls have. Ask one question, and when I answer and you can’t think of a good reply, you change the question to make it seem like I’m avoiding your points. I explain how in the OP.

@Drinknblink-whitemane

Why if a server has that much gold available for sale would they be in a rush to have more bots at max level instead of just leveling them and saving money?

1. New gold seller

2. More characters to farm gold simultaneously

3. If their previous farming account got banned / suspended

@Drinknblink-whitemane

Regardless thats still irrelevant because you simply cant count the bots to see an increase, so your assumption is based on data thats not factual.

It’s a logical fact, not an empirical one.

@Ziryus-doomhammer

I’m just not seeing these massive swarms of boosted characters you seem to.

If not many new people are going to be there via the boost, then doesn’t that kind of defeat your guys arguments as to why the boost is a good thing in the first place? After all, the boost was never justified on the basis of giving existing players a free alt ‘just cus’, it was justified because it would bring more players to the game. But if you’re saying that it wouldn’t be to a noticeable degree, then how is the boost worth it for all the other problems it will cause?

@Ziryus-doomhammer

But hey once again that should be readily apparent within minutes of playing in HFP, if you see a majority of players in boosted gear. If not well turns out you were wrong.

That depends on when the boost first becomes available because if it’s in the pre-patch, then many boosters could be 60 with gear by the time of TBC launch.

[Faelis-arygos]

Regarding bots, unless the boost ends up being significantly cheaper than the cost of a subscription then they’re not going to bother with it

Even if the boost matched the sub cost at $15, why would a bot buy the boost to save a couple of days when they could instead buy a second subscription for the same price and effectively double production?