I actually like the system set up with Legion. It allows the devs to go insane knowing next expansion there wont be a balancing headache. Plus if the players like a certain part of it (see glimmer of light or Frostwyrms or a number of spells and talents) you get to keep it. This allows each expansion to be fresh and create interesting new things that can be creative.
Adding new systems each patch is fun! I liked how Legion and BFA just added more stuff to make me more powerful. Granted there should be better ways for alts to catch up but it was fun! Getting all my Azerite armor then powers plus layering corruption on top. I felt amazingly powerful with all these gameplay options. I will never forget my tank doing huge damage with his twilight devastation it was incredible. If you want to be a stat only gear purist then try out classic. People there are already complaining about being bored or having a hard time getting gear (looking at you pvp). I played since those day and I don’t want to go back. Let go a bit crazy with the design. Not stick to the same boring thing.
In fact I think Shadowlands is too tame compared to BFA and Legion. I hope these new domination runes are crazier than they sound atm.
the reason people hate borrowed power is because it removes any real feeling of progress and improvement from one expansion to the next… we gain untold amounts of power one expansion only for it to all just poof away at the start of the next expansion… instead of continuing to grow in power, we are not slapped with a reset button every expansion. It’s not fun, it’s annoying…
As for the systems hate… that is more to do with the sheer quantity of systems and how much of our power is locked behind them… as well as the sense of being “shoehorned” into specific types of content in order to unlock said power…
also, both of these combined creates a feeling of just lazy development and design… because it allows the devs to just ignore balance issues “because it’ll be reset next expansion anyways” and it encourages a design philosophy of reinventing each class every expansion… many of us liked how our class played 3 or 4 expansions ago and now feel as if our class is only a mere shell of what it was if it even resembles the same class at all…
I hate them because they are implemented extremely poorly at the start of every expansion. Then fixed little by little over the course of two years until they are actually playable, then completely scrapped for the next poorly implemented, unfinished system.
Because we haven’t had a new talent row in how many years? Would like some meaningful progression of my character that doesn’t vanish after 2 years.
Its a triple threat for me of eventual catch up mechanics enticing waiting, time gating the progression, and the fact that if i have to miss the expansion ill never really get to experience it again…or it will be difficult to enjoy.
Id rather have a badass weapon and armor set that i got from running raids and dungeons that i can appreciate three expansions from now via transmogs versus the artifact weapon rotting in my warehouse, or the cool class hall that ill never have a need or purpose for again.
Its a cheap substitute for what was a elegant and simple endgame gear chase via playing the game. Now its some managed game experience.
I dont like the concept, or the mechanics attached to the barrowed power systems.
Id rather they focus on what people want and like and do quantities content for the things people like, add layers and depth.
Build your game world rather than making it disposable i guess is the easiest way to put it.
But what’s the alternative? The powers don’t go away and they just compile endlessly until we’re not even playing a class anymore, we’re just rotating between expansion lasers?
Or expansions just don’t give us any kind of progression whatsoever?
People whinge about borrowed power constantly but I rarely hear anyone offer a solution.
Borrowed power systems or not, I think the devs would reinvent the classes every expansion anyway for no other reasons than it changes up the raid and PVP meta, and (of course) it generates new work for them that guarantees their continued employment. If class design was fairly static over time, then the game wouldn’t require nearly as many devs to support the classes.
Over in HotS, there are no borrowed power systems (that I can recall), but heroes were/are heavily redesigned regularly just for change’s sake.
Very simple. I’ve contemplated coming back from a hiatus since March, only to find that the dps spec I was playing is now being significantly nerfed (this isn’t the toon I’m playing btw). This, coupled with other tuning changes, necessitates a covenant swap. Now, I’m having to run 20+heroic plaguefalls hoping to loot a renown token at the end because that’s the best way to try and get this in order before the patch drops. Oh, btw, the tokens don’t always drop at the end.
You tell me why this is enjoyable.
Oh, and since Bliz sucks at balancing, I’m doing this knowing they may retune and nerf the spec I’m working on in 2-3 weeks since they can’t get things right on the ptr anymore.
you not remember outlaw rogue nerf which had a lot of rogues PO’d they spent weeks of progression on a spec that they no longer want, or Thunderous Blast meta, or Twilight devastation, or the fact that a huge portion of the top end player base is currently Night Fae?
Now all this with the stipulation that “we can’t nerf something that players made progress in” because of stuff like the previous outlaw situation.
Every large system added is going to require balancing from square one, it’s most likely why balancing has been such a mess lately. We can’t build on power or balance between expansions.
I don’t even know if any of the 5 legendaries I crafted will still be usable or if I will have to recraft them all to a non-domination slot next week.
This game has never been balanced since the day it launched and when ever they try to balance (which is all the time ) they actually make things worse.
We had a system that worked before and it came with classes being fully developed and not needing systems are actually a good chunk of a classes passive abilities tied into something other then their talents or spell books. It was called gear and it worked from Vanilla -WoD and people liked it.
People like to be mad and tend to forgot that “permanent” progression doesnt exist. Talents and abilities have gone poof over and over, been reimagined, reworked, and pruned and unpruned. Its all impermanent.
To actually build up the classes each expansion… you know EXACTLY HOW THEY DID FOR THE FIRST 4 EXPANSIONS OF THE GAME!
But of course that solution won’t satisfy everyone… since there are many out there who think there are too many class abilities as is for every class…
Some of the things introduced with the borrowed power systems have been genuinely good additions to classes… though when they were removed at the end of the expansion, some classes/specs that had actually finally gotten improvements they needed were right back to being utter garbage again… And of course, had those features been simply baked into the class as standard progression improvements, they would have been just fine… no reason to remove them arbitrarily at the end of the expansion…
so… sure, don’t make the powers go away… but it’s not really that simple either… being a bit more thoughtful as to what powers they add and how strong they are is also important… they should make them to improve the class but not be so powerful that they feel there needs to be a reset and delete…
It reinvents the wheel every expansion and in practice has a predictable cycle of:
expansion launch: System is shaky, has 1 or 2 crippling flaws has a fair bit of raw potential, but in practice is equally frustrating and enjoyable almost entirely because of these flaws.
.1: one crippling flaw is mitigated, but not removed little to nothing is done for the other. System is expanded on, but since the core issues aren’t addressed little changes.
.2: both crippling flaws are mitigated again, but not removed. System is further expanded on, and at this point side systems begin showing lack of forethought as degenerate gameplay loops crop up entirely through added systems.
.3 one or both crippling flaws are mitigated one more time, this foreshadows a complete fix where “we have heard your feedback” and they outright fix the issues six months before they throw the system out entirely. At this point the expansion hits its peak and hope for the next expansion being better then this one rises, but doesn’t follow through because of course the cycle is about to repeat.
I wouldn’t mind borrowed power systems if they just refined it each time. If we kept artifact weapons after legion I feel bfa would have been a much stronger expansion overall then compared with using azerite since azerite just held class balance hostage with “you have good azerite traits” or “you have bad azerite traits” for the entire expansion. Most classes lived or died by the quality of their azerite traits.