Yeah my boy Raxil is a really good player, he has a 97 average parse in raid, but he’s consistently bottom damage in our m+ runs because of the idiotic target cap…
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Tell him to give arms a shot, he’ll be surprised. High mastery + cleave + TOM bladestorms is baller for big pulls.
Yeah he doesn’t really like arms and we’re doing high enough keys that trying to learn in a 22 is not the move 
too risky to be staring at your bars
I like all the suggestions OP. The only thing is that all of which can be implemented along with target/damage cap.
Dratnos released an excellent video on why the target cap is bad, and i agree with him regarding the sloppy implementation. On the other hand, blizz’s reasoning on reigning in cleave is also perfectly valid. Pulling extra mob shouldn’t infinitely scale.
Correct solution is apply damage scaling, distributing cleave damage to all mob pulled in a way that pulling more than 4 or 5 mobs would offer little if any additional total damage done spread across all targets.
BTW. fury warrior struggling in many target situation is not a problem with fury warriors. it’s cause all the other cleaver do not have any target cap. once target/damage cap gets put in across the board, fury will be just fine.
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Except that like half the classes still won’t have a target cap so it will just feel awful for the ones that do.
Doing big pulls and getting huge numbers is a lot of fun. Pulling small packs even when you outgear the content is just repetitive and boring.
sounds awful.
I was hoping you’d get to the point where Blizzard designs encounters and mechanics around not being able to stack mobs in an AoE.
Limiting the cap seems like they’re just band aiding a balance concern rather than actually taking it upon themselves to balance and change.
Sure, more smaller pull but more dangerous mobs.
Like the pull before Vokul.
Or the Dino with 2 adds mini boss.
Or Zul before last boss in KR.
Or the shrine bridge pulls.
All very popular and loved due to their design around a more challenging small pull.
You don’t need to love and be creaming over every trash pull.
Then those half needs to also have it capped.
Also, Alot of caster’s AOE spell like rain of fire do very low single target damage and cannot be realistically used in conjunction with our single target rotation. so the caster have to decide between single target or AOE mode. cleaver at most require to mix a spell into their rotation, if the rotation must be changed at all. thats where the nerf will happen.
Pretty much this.
The spells that were capped were mostly burst aoe not really lower damage sustained aoe.
Eye beam though still dodging the nerf bat.
But why are we making the game more boring just because people who way overgear content are smashing through it?
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Because that is actually making the game more interesting because Bigpull into Cleave will nolonger be the singular strategy that can handle all types of content, and more varied tactics and comp must be created for different type of content.
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To be fair, you have to powerpull to time high keys. So while overgearing and crushing a 15 is definitely the main source of the issue, the game as a whole is still designed around it right now. I may be in the minority, but I do find planned pulls with CC and intelligent decision making to be a greater show of skill and more enjoyable.
But if they want to keep it the same way as now, AOE needs to be uncapped.
Cata also had this and is widely recognized as the best expac for heroic dungeons, imo aswell.
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Idk about you, but I find pulling bigger packs and correctly managing cc on all of them a lot more fun and rewarding than pulling 3 mobs and being able to cc one of them, because that’s just about as easy as it comes. There’s a reason spider guy is most commonly done on last boss, because kicking one mob is a joke.
The idea that when you pull big packs you don’t use every single cc you have and just spam your aoe abilities is just absurd.
yes/no. It punishes tanks that don’t have good magic mitigation. I think it could absolutely be designed better. Why have casts that can’t be interrupted? =/
that isn’t true. =/
yep. this is exactly the case. King’s rest has good distancing between pulls and it’s pretty prohibitive to pull large because of mob mechanics. King’s Rest is a lot like Halls of Valor in that sense.
That’s the point here though. I don’t think capping AOE is going to change the pull styles. As long as tanks can tank the mobs, groups are still going to pull as large as possible. It’s still the most efficient way to beat a timer.
I’ll have to check it out. I’m not saying Blizzard’s concerns are unvalid by any means. I’m just concerned that a cap will just affect some specs to much greater degree then others.
I agree with what you said here, for example Zul isn’t hard in KR, merely a nuisance and number scaling is wacky at higher levels.
I think a healthy balance of the 2, where a 5 pull requires 1-2 consistently CC’d and the other 3 need to be controlled appropriately, but actually survive awhile would be a better test of skill.
Basically, throw both ends of the spectrum out and meet in the middle. We’ve had times where this was a thing in WoW, it’s just tipped too far in the other direction.
Yes it is.
That’s the way it is currently most of the time. I don’t really care about the cap in push content, because the times we’re doing packs big enough for it to matter aren’t that often. But when I go back and do a +12 or something to help a friend, I want to pull as big as I can because it’s fun and I don’t want to spend 40 minutes doing irrelevant content.
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I am actively pushing keys at that level. Your comment is wrong. You said groups don’t pull 10+ mobs… that’s incorrect. That’s the whole point here anyways.
you also said…
that isn’t true.
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