Why the 30 Instance Limit is Terrible for Feral Druids and Should Not Exist

Hello,
I am going to try to explain here in the most basic terms why the 30 instance per/24 hour limit is very damaging for raiding feral druids. My hope is that even if you don’t agree with me, you will at least understand my arguments whether you play a druid or not:

If you raid as a feral druid like I do, then you might spend quite a bit of time per/week farming Manual Crowd Pummelers (MCP) for raiding. The typical use of MCPs is 1 per boss (excluding, for now, longer bosses like Chromaggus and Nefarian and also exluding wipes for now). So assuming you’re a dedicated feral raider, doing Molten Core, Blackwing Lair, Onyxia, and Zul’Gurub once each per/week, you’d be fighting 28 bosses and would want 28 MCPs (I don’t think the use of MCPs is required in Zul’Gurub, but for the sake of argument lets say they are). MCPs have a 33% drop rate from the Crowd Pummeler boss in Gnomeregan. This means you would have to do roughly 84 Gnomeregan runs per/week to maintain this number.

Each Gnomeregan run takes roughly 4 minutes. 4 x 84 = 336 minutes of farming Gnomeregan, or 5.6 hours. However, as the instance lockout is 5 per hour, in actuality it’s more like 16.8 hours of being LOCKED to exclusively Gnomeregan (84 / 5).

For the sake of argument, lets assume I have a 9am-5pm job, I raid twice a week on Monday and Tuesday, and I don’t have time for any MCP farming on raid days. This leaves 5 days to farm MCPs. Obeying the 30 instance/per 24 hour lockout, this means I have to complete 84 runs in 3, 4, or 5 days. The 3-day example would mean between 6pm - 12pm Wed/Thurs/Fri, “playing” the game for me would be repeatedly logging on for 20 minutes every hour to do Gnomeregan runs. When before the 30-instance lockout I could log on all-day Saturday and get all the Gnomeregan runs done in 1 day, and then spend a few hours the other days doing enjoyable things in game like PVP, leveling professions, farming gold in instances, leveling alts, etc.

I could split it across 5 days, doing 17 Gnomeregan runs per day. But then if I want to do any other dungeon grinding (DM runs, BRD coffer runs, etc) or get boosted on an alt, I’m now limited to 13 non-Gnomeregan dungeon runs per day, or less than three “one-hour lockouts” across every character. And this doesn’t even take into account wiping due to raid progression, or bosses that require multiple MCPs.

Lets say I’m progressing in BWL with my guild and we wipe on every boss twice. That’s 12 MCPs + Chromaggus and Nefarian require at least 2 MCPs each, so that’s 24 MCPs total instead of 8. That’s an extra 36% of the total farming I’d have to do that week, ~132 Gnomeregan runs total instead of 84, and nearly 5 days of being exclusively locked to Gnomeregan across EVERY CHARACTER.

I don’t know what the future holds for AQ/Naxxramas progression. I don’t know if my guild (and guilds in general) is going to be wiping on bosses for 1 week or 10 weeks. I don’t know if every boss is going to require a MCP. But you’re basically telling me for the foreseeable future that I could be spending an indeterminate number of weeks doing NOTHING BUT GNOMEREGAN RUNS and raiding??? ZERO instance runs to farm gold or crafting materials. ZERO instance runs on alts.

I understand that this is a band-aid to try to stop botting, but it doesn’t work. These people have multiple accounts going all the time. Even if the accounts are dungeon locked to 30, They’re running bots in the open world to level, in BGs, selling fresh 60 accounts etc, creating new totally free accounts using WoW tokens and doing it all over again. The 30 instance per/24 hour limit should not exist. It will destroy people’s enjoyment of playing a feral druid by severely restricting how we can spend our game time outside of raiding. Please remove it and come up with a different fix to stop the botters.

28 Likes

Why do you do this to yourself, feral friend. Who hurt you?

10 Likes

If your guild is forcing you to farm 1 MCP per boss for raids, you might want to ask them if you could… not have to do that.

That’s a waste of your time.

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Just perform sub-optimally from your standard and don’t be competitive. Settle for average.

Another good one, reroll.

:roll_eyes:

Good post, OP. Incoming salt from retail and sub-60 avatars.

7 Likes

I have said this many times now, but Blizzards way of fixing things like this will be to nerf MCP into the ground.

Easiest fix would be to make it have unlimited charges but a 2 minute cooldown or something.

1 Like

It’s not exactly 1-per boss at the moment. A lot of fights in MC are so fast you may only need 1 charge. In that situation the other 2 charges can be used for another boss, so it’s 1 MCP for 2 bosses. However if you use 2/3 charges this is usually a waste because swapping from that 1 charge MCP to a fresh one on a boss will incur 30 seconds of not having the buff. Typically I will save the leftover 1/3 charge MCPs for the fast fights next week or some bosses in ZG, but otherwise they’re as useless as a MCP with no charges. And the need to use them in ZG usually depends on how good the dps is. But by the same token, Chromaggus, Nefarian and Onyxia may require 2, sometimes 3 MCPs depending on your guild’s kill speed. I’m not really familiar with AQ40 or Naxx, but I’m assuming the general rule that the fights will be longer until people out-gear the content. If that’s the case, and we will need AT LEAST 1 MCP per boss if no wipes, and it’s still 30 instance limit, the spec is probably going to become unplayable at a high level.

Never been FORCED to bring MCP, but If you’re one of the tanks it’s absolutely not a waste of time. The more threat you generate, the more DPS can be done to the boss, especially if you play horde and there’s no BoS. Not a waste as a dps either. As a dps, it helps the raid by boosting your personal performance. I’ve been top or top 5 dps on a few occasions like Vaelastrasz, Hakkar, Chromaggus, Firemaw, and Golemagg, though I only care about killing the boss, and thinking of MCP as a dps consumable that will help us kill the boss. If you have some Wbuffs, you’re basically as good as a rogue, but with bonus innervate and battle rez

3 Likes

I’m not sure why the MCP is necessary, anyway… Seriously… the DPS should just give a few extra seconds for the druid to lay down some threat. Problem solved. Bosses go down so quick anyway. No one would feel the difference in the raid.

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Seriously, that’s what I would do if I were Blizz. People are complaining that their unintended, cheesy exploit is now more difficult to pull off? So just fix the exploit. Bam. Now they don’t have to worry about it anymore. Problem solved. Ha.

8 Likes

Probably just my terrible luck but it feels like they already nerfed MCP drop rate. I regularly go 15 runs only getting 1 or 2. I get more Fused Wiring than MCP.

Heroic strike queueing for 100% hit rate on offhand or quick swapping gear to +healing set and back because for some reason Diamond Flask scales off it is more of an exploit than using Manual Crowd Pummeler.

3 Likes

Is heroic strike queing or the diamond flask related at all to bot farming?

Is this thread suppose to be some lame attempt at trying to get blizzard to reneg on their instance change?

Ain’t happening. You raid once a week. 30 instances a day is more than enough to keep you going. And if it isn’t? Adjust. I don’t care.

1 Like

MCP is a luxury, it is not intended to be part of a druids basic rotation

I could make ele shaman viable in pve by popping a flask of distilled wisdom like they are mana pots for infinite mana, should i be petitioning for blizzard to make it easy for me to farm dozens of flasks every week to make me “viable” on the spec i know isn’t and would require a whole lot more effort to make so than is reasonable?

If druid dps sucks without abusing a tedious to farm consumable, then maybe you shouldn’t dps on one if you dont want to put in the work to do that, or just settle for being a low dps hybrid class.

You dont HAVE to min max

Blizzard isn’t obligated to make min maxing and exploiting every possible advantage in the game convenient

13 Likes

Because class balance in Classic/vanilla is almost entirely nonexistent.

Without MCPs, Feral Druids cannot hold aggro against the kind of DPS Fury Warriors and Rogues are able to dish out these days.

That’s not how it works. You either generate more threat per second than the DPS, or you don’t. Without MCP, you don’t. Waiting a few extra seconds will not prevent that.

Not to mention no one wants to wait a few extra seconds when their tank could just… use an MCP.

What’s “intended” is totally irrelevant. What matters is what is.

MCP is a fundamental part of Feral’s gameplay. It isn’t a luxury, it’s a pre-requisite.

Big difference there being Feral Druids were directly impacted by this change which should never have existed.

Or maybe people don’t want to purposely gimp themselves by not using everything available to them.

But they choose to. Next.

It’s not exploiting, but you’re right. They aren’t obligated to make min/maxing convenient. They are, however, obligated to keep Classic accurate to vanilla, and this change is NOT accurate.

7 Likes

MCP is NOT a prerequisite for feral

It is NOT a fundamental part of druids gameplay

It is and always has been a luxury consumable

You do not NEED MCP to play druid, and you CAN still use them and farm tons of them even after this change

Just because you’ve become accustomed to using this busted consumable on cooldown doesn’t mean you actually NEED it, you’ve gotten used to using MCP as a crutch, and now you’re upset you can’t have 100% uptime on this artificially boosted version of feral dps unless you spread your farming out over the course of a few days.

Every feral druid in vanilla was NOT using MCP on cooldown, this is a behavior that has developed after 15 years of min maxing on private servers

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At the rate that blizzard responds to feedback to classic I’d say it’s time to reroll rogue or fury warrior. They are happy with the change even if the community responds negatively.

I was hoping it was hotfixed out but the fact that it was “improved” instead of removed yesterday is a very bad sign…

You routinely ran gnomer 84 times in a single calendar day? With the old lockouts that requires 17 hours of hitting the lockout expiring perfectly. I’m not going to ‘police your playstyle’ but I flat out don’t believe there’s that many people that are doing 80+ gnomer runs spread out over 17 hours in a single day, every week. But even if you’re not completely full of crap and you actually did do this, blizzard decided that accessing that many dungeons in one day is exploitative. Their game their rules.

Side note, most feral tanks don’t need a fully charged MCP for every single boss. Many guilds are casual enough that bears can hold threat without 100% uptime on it, and many guilds are hardcore enough that some bosses die in under a minute, so you couldn’t use 3 charges if you wanted to on every boss

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It is if you expect to have any reasonable success in a decent group.

It absolutely is.

I don’t need gear, either. Doesn’t mean I’m going to raid naked.

I’m sure you’ve never tanked in a good group if you think that’s the case. Good luck holding aggro without one.

I play often enough that that isn’t the case even with the 30 instance/day limit. I don’t even play Feral anymore (unrelated to this change, but fortunately timed), but I’d still be rocking 100% uptime on MCP because I’m not a terrible Feral Druid. All this change does is make it so I can’t do anything else once I’ve finished my MCP farming for the day.

The reason I’m upset is because it’s a change. There should be NO CHANGES to Classic whatsoever. Absolutely NONE.

Irrevelant. They could, though, and they could also farm 5 instances an hour all day if they wanted.

I did 100+ runs in a single 24 hour period by setting a timer and regularly doing 5 clears until I got the MCPs I needed. Sometimes I’d get them all in less than 30 clears; sometimes it’d take over 100.

Lazy argument.

Everyone knows it’s Blizzard’s game, but a bad change is a bad change. People are justified in complaining about said bad change regardless of that fact.

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My overall argument isn’t lazy, I wrote quite a bit more that you could respond to of you wanted, thanks. And a ton of people including OP keep saying the new cap is to hurt botting and neglect to mention the announcement specifically mentioned exploitative play too. Blizzard has always squashed play that they decided was an exploit. If you want to argue that running a dungeon 100 times a day isn’t an exploit, go nuts. But blizzard disagrees.

But “their game their rules” is.

Here’s the entirety of your point:

So, essentially, your argument is “I don’t believe that you ran gnomer 84 times a day, but even if you did, Blizzard decided you can’t. It’s their game.”

That is a VERY lazy argument. Just because Blizzard decided it doesn’t make it good. Try harder.

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If druid cant hold aggro without abusing this consumable on cooldown, and you are unwilling to do what it takes to farm this consumable, then maybe a “good” group should just stick to using warrior tanks as they have been for 15 years

If you dont like druids viability then reroll, or put in the work needed to compete

4 Likes