I mean, i cant exactly sympathize with you on this bc honestly ive been wanting sylvanas to bite it since Cata for what she did to Koltira- but to be fair it wouldn’t totally be a retcon.
Chronicles already hinted at some funny bussiness going down with the wrathgate+ the varimathras boss fight in which he taunts our corpses if we wipe.
My guess is that Sylvanas found out about it, but didnt care bc it had a chance of killing arthas and she was gonna kill herself afterwards anyway
I’m a night elf so Sylvanas is not exactly my favorite person just at this moment. But … pure evil is dull. I like the idea that it is possible to pull the wool over the Banshee Queen’s eyes. I like the idea that when she wished Varian good luck on the broken shore she meant it. I like the idea that she was conflicted when she was forced to withdraw from that battle. I’ve long believed/hoped that some small part of the Ranger-General’s (let’s call it) humanity remained. It would give her character depth and make her more interesting.
We know very little about Wrathgate, and Chronicles keeps it deliberately ambiguous as to her involvement with that event at least (and it does mention she lied about it in some way).
Taliesin is also (for once) right, it is something she’d do. By that point she considered the Alliance her enemy, held no true loyalty to the Horde, and was planning on killing herself after she killed Arthas (she would have avoided any consequences for Wrathgate had it worked, she didn’t care). It may not have gone down the way she intended, but it doesn’t matter … its not out of the realm of possibility that she has some responsibility for it.
Beyond that … where have you been the last 8 years? Sylvie’s been on this current character arc since Edge of Night, and she’s done plenty of horrific stuff before Wrathgate and after her suicide drop off of ICC. Everything she’s done in “BtS” and “BfA” is in character for her (even without knowing her “True Objectives”, which aren’t likely to beneficial for the Horde) if you’ve been paying attention to her story since she got her revenge against Arthas.
Not sure what character you’ve been a fan of up until this point, but it sounds a bit like you perhaps liked the Idea of Sylvie … more than who she actually is.
i don’t think it will matter, if anything this may just cause blizzard to push even harder with this narrative. in the words of the borg “resistance is futile”
The salt here is real. People really think the vocal minority of Hordeposters on this forum is going to really show Blizzard what you want?
While you’re still paying for your sub?
Racking up playing time?
Paying for in-game services?
There is one concrete, certain way to show Blizzard that you are unsatisfied with them. And that is to quit.
And no, this isn’t a troll post. I’d still be unsubbed now too if Blizzard didn’t mess up charging me for an additional month at the end of October.
This has been BFA for me. You can get people emotional invested in a story line, but this entire expansion has been less about creating an entertaining and emotionally immersive story and more about emotional manipulating real life people into hating each other. WarCraft’s two faction design already lends itself to this, but Blizzard writers are actively tapping into this toxicity. Time will tell if this will ultimately backfire on them and their brand.
Unfortunately this has been the case since before Sylvanas took up the mantle. The writers merely used her to double down on it and take it to the next level. The Horde has been on a pretty evil and genocidal path since Garrosh. WoD, the expansion which seemingly had the Horde go back to its Thrallish roots, still managed to continue the villainization of the Orcs. Perhaps not so much the villiainization, but the henchification of the Orcs.
Exactly this. I’m not taking the chance that these devs look at a spite vote for Sylvanas and decide that that’s what we want. I’m siding with Saurfang in hopes that we can actually get rid of her somehow. Given her popularity it will never happen, but I can still dream.
This talk of siding with Sylvanas, demonstrated to be willing to kill loyalists if they’re in the same open plain as people tired of her shenanigans and going over to the other team, as a way to spite Blizzard for a perceived campaign to sully her character (by having her do things entirely within her character) brings the Stanley Parable to my mind.
“But in his eagerness to prove that he was in control of the story and no one gets to tell him what to do, Stanley leapt from the platform and plunged to his death.”
"Good job, Stanley. Everyone thinks you are very powerful."
Spite’s relatable. I’d dare say it has been what’s kept me Alliance all these years despite coming into WoW from WC3 a fan of far more Horde races than anything else. One can only stomach Blizzard blatantly hyping the Horde with heavy story focus, their own metal band, war cry synonymous with the company, getting spit on at Blizzcon, made fun of at Blizzcon or interviews or Dev talks or blue posts etc (PvE BGs are coming. you’re welcome, Alliance hehe.), or my own bnet shouts going on about how crap the Alliance is at content, for so long before it all just turns sour in the mouth.
Looking forward to a chance to spite vote soon! Alliance players will get something to vote on, right? They are listening, riiight?
While we’re salt posting, this poster figured they’d empty their bag a bit.
Which is why we need to change course. Blizz has done this for too long, a good chunk of the Horde playerbase is tired of being evil, or at the very least AT LEAST evil in this stupid and pointless way.
Another Sylvanas fanclub meeting. How many times do you guys meet a day?>
![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
Yes!!!![:confused:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/confused.png?v=6" ":confused:")
I totally agree with the threat, but the writers find a way to boast about everything. Pre-patch - twitter - “sir, they’re not liking” “that’s nothing, they’re just STILL DIVING IN HISTORY, HOW MUCH LOVE.” And it is by these things and others that I only intend to return in 8.2.
Of course, something must come out: “choose to be some of these for our next plot event.”
a) Lawful good
b) Neutral good
c) Human paladin
“Oh, were you expecting it to be between a traitor or a genocidal murderer? Haha its a joke, don’t worry.”
You are advocating something a bit more heavy handed than is sought.
I dont like retconning Saurfang’s sons death and blaming it on Sylvanas to bolster a contrived “Baby Killing Saurfang is the Metric of Honor” plot.
But that is a tiny sliver of the wealth of lore (though impactful - it is but one moment).
I enjoy the story and the game. Why would I unsub over a difference in story direction? That seems very fickle.
I unsubbed for most of MoP because it was disappointing story wise. I dont care about Anduin, Garrosh, Pandas, or Pandaria.
But BfA is multifaceted. I care about the Zandalari, Tortollan, Vulpera, Fungarian, and the Horde. So while I find the story distasteful, I do enjoy the game.
The story sucks right now - but it has been good before, and It may be good again.
I never liked Sylvanas to begin with, and this was from Vanilla. I shall repeat my sentiment here:
Elves and Corpses have no place in the Horde and have brought permanent and long lasting damage to what was once a good idea. A good idea reborn from an all too terrible concept that we were trying to build ourselves away from.
We are now back to WC2 Horde. And we are becoming nu-Scourge. Being able to side with Saurfang would be a rather welcome development. But at this point, Horde lore is a dumpster fire. I would even go so far as to wish for the ability to defect, or at the very least go neutral. Very neutral.
Face-rolling wannabe Scourge-lets with my axe is something I would look forward to.
Their place in your Horde is to bolster your worthless numbers.
A Faction with Orcs and cows was untenable. So they added Undead. And later added Elves, because Undead was not enough.
Everytime you see Alliance crying about population balances and Warmode - that would be your Horde with no Undead and no Elves.
We did well enough with what we had, and we still could have done well without nu-Scourge. Horde players enjoyed being the underdog. And it helped to give rise to some fine players indeed. Now we get the villain bat all the time and no agency at all as to whether or not you wan’t to follow the next great world-threatening evil that somehow makes it to your throne.
Don’t get me wrong, the Alliance can be bland, and their story is filled with lawful stupidity all across the board, but you feel far less dirty questing than you do in the Lich-Queen’s service. Bringing me back to Classic, it was about trying to survive in a hard world and mend the wounds of the past. We occasionally tussled with the Alliance. But all in all we weren’t tolerating the presence of death camps and usage of the lich-king’s armory.
If we were allowed to tell Thrall of the Forsaken’s activities during vanilla perhaps the scrawny perveyor’s of death would have gotten the Doomhammer face-rolling they deserved. The elves also brought a whole slew of problems with them, along with thematic damage.
Now it’s villain bat session after villain bat. They need to be exiled to Northrend where they belong.
the alliance did outnumber the horde before blood elves were added.
Fickle would be if YOU changed what you wanted, not unsubbing over the story being bad.
It was because the horde still had the stigma as being “the bad guys”. We could have gradually built ourselves up from that but no. Wannabe legolas and sephiroth elves flooded the game, and as the story trudged along Thrall was written in to be the green messiah and put Garrosh in command. Sylvanas still dumped her evil garbage on the rest of the Horde. We got some respite with Volj’in but in the end he was killed off post-haste, and in his place we got the worst possible choice for War-chief, again.
Villain bats at the ready. Time to trudge through more “morally grey” ooze. Maybe we will see the end of factions in general. I dunno, but at this rate, the dumpster fire is still raging and I would at least like to be neutral.
im pretty sure they upgraded it to a villain warhammer