This. Arthas coming back and killing Sylvana, thus getting redemption, is disgusting. It sends a really bad message. It is just as bad, if not worse than, Sylvanas getting a redemption where she is hailed as a hero after everything she has done. Both send horrible messages.
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They’re the same person.
We know the Jailor’s domination magic wasn’t working right yet, and even if it were Arthas picked up Frostmourne of his own volition. Even though the ghosts guarding it told him it was a bad idea, Muradin said it was a bad idea, and the sword has a sign next to it saying CURSED SWORD - SERIOUSLY, BRO, DON’T TOUCH IT. And when his dumbass picks it up anyway his first act is to kill Mal’Ganis. Which suggests it was very much still him.
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I never asked for this.
I mean it sucks that Garrosh story went down the way it did, especially when it was clear Blizzard had other ideas to make him more heroic but it is what it is. I was fine with accepting the end of each of their story arcs and moving on.
I can’t really reconcile Arthas who was motivated to protect his people by killing Malganis would be the very same person who would seek their destruction.
If he was that sort of person he would have never followed Malganis.
Hero picking up cursed weapon for the greater good is a common story trope. Though usually it involves him or her dying for one last sacrifice at the end. Metzen though went a different route clearly.
I think its fair to say that the Arthas before Northrend was a very different Arthas that came back from Northrend. So in death would he be the very first Arthas we meet with everything he did haunting him or is it the evil Arthas who is mad at being killed before doing whatever it was he was trying to do.
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He purges Stratholme and traps his own men in Northrend before he picks up Frostmourne.
It wasn’t a man stumbling down the darkside to protect his people. He was doing it for his own personal glory.
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He purges stratholm not because he had a bad breakfast that day but because he was trying to control a undead pandemic from spreading.
He trapped his men to force them to fight, we have examples in history of commanders burning bridges and ships to force their men not to desert.
You have to ask yourself why did Arthas do those things? To protect his people. That was his one singular purpose and goal.
When he came back from Northrend? Yep lets kill them all.
Its a total contradiction.
Wrong.
If he was doing an exposition that he will be remembered as the greatest king/paladin/prince that ever lived I would agree but Blizzard writing has the subtility of a rhinoceros. Arthas was pretty clear of his goals, his methods thought were much more questionable.
Unless of course this was all retconned in a book that I never bothered reading.
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Arthas’ motivation was vengeance, something Uther warned him about in like the very first mission in Warcraft 3.
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Yes vengeance as well but in every story clip I remember Arthas always mentioned wanting to protect his people before he became a deathknight.
This evil prince from hell is not something I ever saw him as that you guys are trying to depict.
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I think that was Arthas way of trying to reassure himself that he was doing the right thing more than anything else. He could say “FOR THE PEOPLE” all he wanted, but his actions gave a very different impression.
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Did they often do this after being ordered to return home by their king?
Also the guy who burned his own ships to trap his army was Hernán Cortés. That is not the historical figure to invoke if you’re trying to bill someone as a hero.
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I mean is there any evidence?
I could say Thrall didn’t want to save and redeem his people but make a Orc supremacist empire by making lesser races their vassals.
Kind of how it happened but not at all either. Unless there was a retcon somewhere I have to take thrall by his word just as I do Arthas.
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I am looking at the actions of the characters individually. I don’t ascribe the morality of the characters certain actions inspired by historical events.
Arthas wanted his army to stay to keep going after Malganis and eliminate a threat he thought no one would take seriously until it was too late.
What did he do? burned the ships so they can’t leave.
Lets compare that to Sylvanas. Who seems to kill people and destroy things seemingly for the hell of it.
Two very different motivations and characters.
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The Jailor’s domination magic wasn’t working. He couldn’t control Ner’Zhul, Arthas or Bolvar. Additionally undeath doesn’t change who someone is.
He had some voices suggesting he do some bad stuff, but he had to agree and go do them.
No one was taking the zombie apocalypse seriously?
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Funny I thought thats why Sylvanas became evil and why the dead Night Elves joined the people that killed them.
So did this bit get retconned again or are we back to Sylvanas using mind control? Genuine question because lore seems to be changing every 2 months.
Not to the way Arthas thought was adequate.
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Arthas had the mercenaries he hired burn the ships down and then had his soldiers kill the mercenaries for burning down the ships.
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I know. That mission was too long.
And why were there mercenaries in the middle of nowhere with dead people for miles around?
Never understood why they were there in the first place 
Northrend wasn’t a barren wasteland. There were villages and towns there before Ner’zhuls spirit was flunged into Icecrown.
Also, I don’t think you’re grasping just how manipulative Arthas was by having the mercs he order to destroy those ships to also be killed by his soldiers whilst disregarding a direct order from the King to return home.
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They joined with Slyvanas because they saw the Maw, and she did technically rescue them from it. Likewise Slyvanas turned evil after Edge of Night. Where she also saw the Maw.
Zenkan getting a glimpse of it makes him have a complete crisis of faith. But Bwomsamdi, unlike Elune, actually saved him. Sira though? Well I can see why she’d be on the warpath towards Elune’s pope.
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I think I mentioned half a dozen times about how bad the methods Arthas used were. But each time I think WHY he did what he did, we can question his judgment, his methods, behavior and his strategy but his goal was perfectly clear.
He saw it as a service, he wanted to save his country from a threat he thought he was alone in seeing how serious it was. That is why he did all those things and why I don’t agree with some people here who think Arthas did all this to become emperor of the world or some other vain goal like personal glory or status.
If there are any quotes or retcons that debunks that I would love to see it because all I know from arthas is the RTS game and some dialogues between characters in wow.
But she put them there in the first place. That’s not where dead people are supposed to go. I don’t see the logic of them joining Sylvanas and killing more Night Elves to send to that hell that they just got sent to.
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I don’t think either of them deserve redemption, you grammatically absent goblin.
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