Why Retail is a better game then Classic, but Classic is more fun

I would say its indisputable that Retail is a better game than Classic - by almost every measure. It has better graphics, more content, more things to do, more balanced pvp, more and better story elements, more interesting dungeon system, more polished raids, etc, etc, etc.

But Classic is more fun. Why? I think one reason: Retail is like playing a game with every cheat code enabled.

  • God Mode: never worry about dying while fighting mobs, you are now unkillable.
  • Map Hack: don’t worry about where anything is, just follow the dots this cheat code puts on your map.
  • Greed Mode: epic loot literally falls from the skies while you walk around.
  • etc. but you get the point.

And the result is, you simply do not care about anything in retail. Who cares about combat when you faceroll? Who even reads quests anymore? When was the last piece of loot you were excited to get?

A possible fix? I think if one feature was also to take blame, its Addons. They are where most of these cheat codes originated - they became so popular that Blizzard choose to add them as part of the default UI. Without addons most of these cheat codes wouldn’t exist, and you also wouldn’t have other systems that are far removed from rpgs, such as the crazy number chasing that damage meters cause.

Just my thoughts. Agree or Disagree?

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For everyone in the world except Ion, fun is the goal, so it’s hard to claim “better” if its less fun.

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I disagree either is more fun than the other, it is completely up to the person playing the game to decide that for themselves.

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It’s only God mode at level Cap. You just reach level cap more quickly.

Lots of folks were complaining about the lack of character power due to scaling while leveling. My warrior certainly had some issues in Legion, and more so in Argus until he was geared up.

It’s easier to gear up once you get there, but that’s a different issue.

And you are certainly not in God Mode in the instances, plus you have the ability to rise up in difficulty until you’re not in God Mode in the instances.

The Map Hack is good and bad. The good is that it actually lets them write better and more complicated quests without TLDR’ing the quest text. This allows for more expository storytelling. You always turn it off, but the modern quest text pretty much assumes you have it on.

Catch up mechanics is why the “loot falls from the sky”. If these were not here, it would be drought city. But we’ve learned long ago (since BC) that catch mechanics are better for the longer health of the expansion and the game than not.

Classic, being closed off, does not have, and will not need, these mechanics. The issues with clearing Naxx was not solely the lack of geared players.

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Having more fun is better Imo.

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Meters have been an issue for me. From raiding ICC with a mage, having to get the exact number, to now…where I compare my heals to others healing in LFR when I know my gear is not optimal and I have not raided at all this expansion. It leaves me feeling under powered and useless so I avoid any group content. I do not queue for 5 mans, or expeditions etc. because I just know someone somewhere will say something negative about my heals. Sure, that is all on me, but it is because of the meter.

I totally disagree with this. To me, Vanilla and TBC was some of the most balanced pvp ever. The reason I say that is that the variety of talents and itemization let you customize your character however you want.

If there is a class that dominates you, through talents and careful gear selection you can completely build your character to counter that. You would become weaker against other classes, but you could it. It was your choice and it was amazing.

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“because I just know someone somewhere will say something negative about my heals. Sure, that is all on me, but it is because of the meter.”

You can’t blame the meter for you doing an improper rotation, any one who looks at meter’s and just goes off the base number is wrong, Always check the break down of spells being cast and there number’s, This is what classic-ICC was about with a meter, then add in mana consumption if i see you are oom, half way into a fight spamming CoH and no lvl 1 flash of lights ect, you aint doin it right.

Second point to Meter hating, Meter’s were also a good thing back in classic when you had to watch you’re Threat lvl’s as a dps, you could see who pulled the most dps and, most likely would pull threat, this is where Omen Threat meter’s get put in, High threat! Stop Attacking! also goes with the burst factor more burst more threat quickly.

End point, meter’s are fine, I agree with you on ppl bein stupid with it hence, why in WoD you could’nt say anything negative about some one else’s meter’s Raid leader gets mad and, all you were doing was having a good laugh with an In game friend, “going what’s up dude?” but, poking fun of his meter.

To the OG Poster, Addons have there Place, in classic-ICC Quest helper was a blessing but, fully agree it made the game to easy toward it’s later in game version, the OG addon itself was slightly off in positions of where a given quest giver was but, it gave you a better idea of location versus just reading the quest.

I’v said before i was shocked coming to WoW and finding out blizzard actually allowed 3rd party programs sense there stance on every game was the same NO YOU’RE BANNED except wow.

I’ll agree on some points but, in the end i’ll agree to disagree. thx for reading, sorry for the long post.

ill settle this. retail is absolutely unplayable boring loot simulator and vanilla is the greatest game EVER created. i played in 2004 had 2 kids since and will play in 2019

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So the reason retail is a better game is because of things that make it less of a game and make you care less about it…?

Not sure how that works, but whatever.

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Classic is better - It was a game created by players for players.
Retail currently - is based off of numbers that others find enjoy-able, and re-arranging those things each expansion to keep it fresh.

Therefor; Retail can’t truly capture what the general audience wants.

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This one always makes me chuckle. I mean really, what makes something epic?

The color? That little label calling it epic? The stats? The cosmetics? The effort required to obtain?

Those first pieces of gear you get once you hit max level might be purple and carry the epic label but they are not epic.

Don’t need Blizzard to recolor and relabel the gear for me to know the difference.

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I don’t think you know what “better” means in the context of game design, OP.

PS - I disagree with some of your fundamental assertions anyway. I do not agree that Retail has more balanced PVP, better story, or a more interesting dungeon system. Not sure about the better graphics, either; they’re certainly different stylistically.

They are different games at this point.

I love leveling in vanilla and on beta but unless im in a raiding guild doing scheduled raids endgame is going to be pretty lackluster. Same as it was for me once i stopped raiding in BWL the first time around. Not much to do other than that unless you want to account share to rank 14.

I understand all that and dont disagree…I’ve always found it hard for healers to have a rotation, situations call for different technique. I’m rusty (haven’t seriosuly raid healed since MoP) and I think I just didn’t feel like trying to jump back in knowing it may be a toxic environment for me. All my friends quit. Haha…been solo for a long time.

For classic I am really looking for a home and I CAN NOT wait to find it! Im ready to start from scratch on a new class that can heal. Gain back some confdence and down some bosses.

Edit: ICC wssnt an issue, but I played for the meter which took the fun out. I was at the top for damage. Things have progressively gotten more toxic in the community though, so shyed away from healing.

There is a difference between “Better” and “Fun”.

Vanilla was Fun because of things being meaningful, challenging, and actually having a feel of adventure.

Current is better because it’s more stable, has a more user friendly feel, and has nice quality of life things.

Vanilla lacks quality of life things like quest markers on mini map.

Current has that but it lacks meaningful progression and actual fun.

Honestly that will be one of the main things that in my opinion that people will be upset about. A lot of the early expansion QoL things like quest markers on mini map came with TBC and Wrath.

It’s also why certain things were reported as bugs. Things like being able to see quests on your mini map just seems like common sense. Why wouldn’t it be there?

Because you were expected to read and use a bit of common sense instead of having everything spoonfed like you are an infant.

Look retail isn’t a bad game, but its shallow and once you push through that it looses lots of people quickly.

P’much

/thread

I basically had this happen to me in Wailing Caverns, and a bit later in Blackfathom Deeps many years ago and it so scarred me and ruined my fun in the game that I have hardly done a dungeon since.

I know it’s not logical, but feelings seldom pay attention to logic.

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Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool.

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