You are trying to capitalise on the false impression that you’ve got, and calling my clarification “trolling”. Once again, I apologise for thinking you were actually on top of the conventions used in this game, as from my experience, pokemons and battle pets mean exactly the same thing, so please let’s avoid a “no u” direction as that is one of a sure ways to derail any conversation regardless of what it is, but sweeping a problem under the carpet instead of addressing it carries a risk to sometimes cause it to come back much stronger and worse than it originally was, and get the pendulum swinging into the other direction, which in the long run doesn’t help anyone to have a balanced and fun game, whichever way they chose to go about it
your a troll, doent try to talk your way out of being caught. it was brought up went talking about class counters and type match ups. you diverted from that point because your point was proven a false narrative. you keep ignoring any point anyone makes to you that you don’t want to hear, you are just a bandwagon troll who cant even make a valid argument that cant be defeated by a simple “Get Gud”
You have no point, your feelings are not facts, no one cares that your class can be countered, and no one has sympathy for you not wanting to pvp in war mode, you are a troll.
Does that mean that destro has only 2 buttons, fire mage has only 3, hunter has no buttons, and arms has 1 button? I really don’t see how this is an argument at all, demon hunter has less things to press than other classes, but to get full use out of the class you need to be using 10+
I have nothing to talk myself out of, and my point is yet to be proven as false narrative, I have addressed every point others have made so far and all that I have been making are valid arguments that keep falling on deaf ears, and if you presume that “Get Gud” is a valid argument then I think your definition of trolling is in a major need of some adjustment, as my arguments are elaborate, explicit and sophisticated, as opposed to a blatant accusations of trolling that I do not even bother responding to assuming it is immediately obvious to anyone with half a brain, but it seems that if I have to prove something so obvious then I am really in the biased place.
Now to refute your assumptions:
I have made my point crystal clear multiple times. Unlimited spectral sight range is unacceptable and should be reduced to a maximum of 40yd which we agreed on. I have made my point in the correct thread, which asked for feedback why other classes complain about DH. I have given exactly that. Calling my opinions “feelings” is just immature and while I have not claimed my opinion to be the fact, your opinion cannot possibly prove that it isn’t either. And falsely claiming that nobody cares about a certain class getting hard countered by another class is the furthest you could get from actually addressing the problem at hand, as unless this thread was made to look like it is asking for a feedback as opposed to actually discussing it then I have done exactly that, and all I hear are accusations for doing exactly what was expected and shunning revelations of no sympathy, which I haven’t even expected in the first place, but given the level of hostility I’ve experienced in what I thought to be a self conscious and constructive discussion place I’m considering to do exactly as proposed, however the next time I will express my opinions about a class it will not be as impartial and kind as I did here, unless that is exactly what DH community wants, but I will need a more solid confirmation from more than one person before I do just that.
Spectral Sight is one button, which detects stealthed enemy characters from up to 100yd away and once they’re unstealthed they’re as good as dead from other 3-5 buttons that DH use. Reducing the spectral sight range to 40yd will meet the minimum effective dose of at least being able to back away from a location containing a hostile DH as opposed to being bullrushed and crushed with no way to escape someone more mobile than yourself.
Well if you’re referring to pvp, the argument is completely different. My point still stands that spamming immolate and chaos bot as well as rampage, is the exact same thing still stands. Yes they can reveal stealth, making them the only counter to rouges. but even if they do reveal them the rouge can still sap, paralize, or use one of their other 3million cc abilities. The thing about not having a lot of buttons is you don’t have a lot of options, demon hunters are really easy to play around in arena if you are better than them. If you want to complain about dh in pvp, try fel lance, that is just the most broken pvp talent in existance.
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dont bother arguing with them, they are not even max level, and they are arguing that they cant do anything without stealth wile playing outlaw whos entire rotation functions without stealth, and they are claiming that dh is to easy while also playing face roll outlaw with more utility healing mitigation and cc. they are a troll
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Spamming immolate and chaos bolt is a valid issue as well. I don’t know for sure how bad it is as I do not have a high level warlock nor a DH, but if that’s anywhere near the level of cancelling the stealth of stealth classes twice every minute for 10 seconds each time, then it is definitely you should bring up in warlock forum and get their opinions on whether or why do they think its balanced and watch them going full on protective daddy mode about their cannon guns. In stealth classes case though, even with all the cc it doesn’t change the fact that DH is the only class that can get an opening on rogue from an unimaginably large distance, which forces the rogue to engage and spend all of their cc abilities for defense mode, which is really not what their original purpose is, making the rogue pretty much useless after all the cc have been exhausted, and even then it is not guaranteed it will help to escape alive, because an unstealthed rogue who is not attacking anything in melee range is just a big walking dummy that can be gunned down by the very same chaos bolts that get you as well. And fel lance must be exactly that 40yd ability, which is really large range for a melee class indeed, but I think it is temporary as only while demon form lasts, and can be a good baseline for the spectral sight range, as it would go you have seen something, you have killed it, as opposed to seeing something on the far end of the screen, felrushing to it and then killing it
I don’t intend to argue with them nor devalue their opinion. I do however seek to have a meaningful discussion in which hopefully I can dissuade them from hating on a class because of it’s lack of options as the reason for it being good.
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good luck roflolol
I don’t think that a class forcing you to play a different way against it is a bad thing. I do think spectral sight is very powerful, but I think stealth is more powerful. It feels terrible to just get sapped by a rouge for 9 seconds at the start of the game with having no chance of fending it off or doing anything about it. the demon hunter still has to get within melee range to reveal the rouge to their teammates, I don’t think that it is particularly unbalanced for a class to be countered by something. It’s not like spectral sight means that you can’t play rouge, it just puts you at a disadvantage in terms of stealth, you still have a lot of options to beat the demon hunter even if you dont immediately get to sap them with no chance of them being able to do anything.
finally someone sensible understanding of what I’m trying to say. Yes, spectral sight is very powerful, and while stealth is powerful as well, without the stealth the stealth classes are nowhere near the power level of the non stealth classes wearing the same type of armor, such as monk or DH, as that’s how Blizzard have designed stealth classes to be, with them opening on someone first, because if they don’t get the upper hand early, then they will enter a drag fight. The good example from classic days was a rogue vs warrior, the longer the fight drags on, the more rage the warrior will have, and the less energy the rogue will have. The stealth class is the strongest while they’re stealthed, but once they unstealth, their power level decreases dramatically, and unless they are able to either quickly overpower their enemy or run away, they’re going to be a dead meat before they know it. And yes, spectral sight puts a rogue at massive disadvantage because it is a DH who gets an opening on a stealth classes most of the time, which from the start diminishes the power level of rogue compare to the one of a DH, and even if rogue is able to somehow get an upper hand due to better gear or skill, it is much easier for a DH to escape from a rogue finishing moves than for a rogue to escape a DH, just because of how absurdly large spectral sight’s range is
Outlaw is not exactly a stealth class, nor is outlaws rotation dependent on stealth
Once again this is not how outlaw operates.
thats not how warrior works and:
your words not mine.
Outlaw is actually strongest after you have rolled the bones enough to have decent buffs allowing you to tear threw opponents.
It’s not even that powerful though. It doesn’t pull you out of stealth or make stealth useless within an infinte range like he’s saying, and if we don’t get in range without using abilities and get them out of stealth, then we’re just as likely to get stun locked to death as any other class.
ANY ability we use causes it to drop off, so the double jump + glaive that some DH can pull off in pvp is not actually meant to work, it’s a latency thing where the buff doesn’t fall off before you press the buttons and it’s like having a panic attack when using that combo (which is what makes it fun when it works). And even if you are hit, you can literally just vanish and we can’t do it again for long enough for the rogue to drink a potion whilst still in stealth and open up on us.
A good rogue won’t get killed by a dh because of this, not 1on1. But in a group, taking a rogue out of stealth can really help the group to kill him, and it’s pretty much the ONLY way to do that… so overpowered? I think not.
Also, dh have literally no usable cooldowns when stunned to mitigate damage, next to clothies we’re probably the easiest to kill for rogues and druids.
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Subjective one strikes again.
Allow me to remind you that SL was released a day ago, so noone is at max level at the moment, but DH are getting spectral sight way before max level, which is when hell on earth for stealth classes begins. I do not play outlaw only, in fact the only reason I play it because of an additional utility of grappling hook that gives me a slightly higher chance to escape the DH abuse. If you think that outlaw rotation does not require stealth at all, then it clearly tells me you haven’t play any rogue spec at all, and putting the words into my mouth that I claimed a DH is too easy while calling outlaw faceroll, while the only healing utility we have is 20% healing usable once every 30 seconds and comparing it to a utility that outright blows the stealth twice a minute for the entire 10 seconds is just laughable. Once again, all I’m hearing are accusations and name callings instead of a valid criticism of my ideas, which doesn’t help me to have a quality conversation with you so please re-assess the way you approach the discussion before throwing more baseless conclusions containing generic cherry picked opinionated lines what you thought I have meant instead of addressing what I actually said
If there was a time for me to throw an accusation of trolling or stop reading after this then that would be it, however since I miraculously still care I will just pretend to ignore it, because the very statement that a rogue does not need stealth does not need a refute, it needs a reality check.
See above
Yes, but that’s just a generic example to illustrate a point that still stands from vanilla as the fundamental class concept remains the same, that when a stealth class gets unstealthed, and is outside of their melee range, they’re basically an elite creep of the same level which anyone can just autottack from a distance without any risk for themselves, and so far DH is the only one who ensures this does happen every single time spectral sight is popped. The hard counters part is what changed since vanilla, but there are still some present, and spectral sight is exactly that perfect example of one, and should be addressed asap if the game is to truly adopt the proper direction it is going towards.
But what if I’m not after tearing through my opponents and just want to merely escape or sneak around a DH who is 100yd away without being noticed and felrushed into and forced into rolling the bones? Besides any finishing moves including roll the bones need combo points, and the single best way to build them up is to have an opening, which in case with DH just will not be the case, because spectral sight detects anything from a huge distance and then what happens to an unstealthed class I have already listed.
No, shadowlands did NOT release yesterday, and 50 IS the current max level. You have a gripe against DH, i get it, they touched you in your sensitive area and you didn’t like it, but calling for a nerf of the ONLY ability in game that can see you in stealth, that doesn’t in itself pull you from stealth or close a gap, that is removed by taking damage or performing any action, just screams attention. It’s not in the slightest overpowered.
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then do it? you have sprint, stealth and vanish, you have to give the DH a reason to hit SS, they don’t generally sit around using it on CD, its not even on my main bars on my dh.
If they hit you, hit them back, vanish, sap, dash, gg you got away… its really brain dead easy, and if you cant range los hide in a npc or get to a fp in the time it takes for sap to wear or for ss to be back off CD then you have some problems, maybe you should be playing the DH?
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btw i can see and mark stealth too, just saying.
It does have infinite range, and once the stunlock finishes or you trinket out of it, not only the stealth classes don’t get a second chance, they don’t get the flee option either, but the biggest issue is opening, as when the stealth class is opened on instead of opening onto someone, its already a loss situation in most cases, and DH can always have an opening on a stealth class whenever spectral sight is active.
not from my experience, it doesn’t seem to fade from felrush, and once any other ability is used and the stealth class is unstealthed, it is irrelevant whether spectral sight stays active or not, as the character will be visible long enough to keep them visible through anything including autoattacks. And vanish has 120 seconds cooldown while spectral sight has 30 seconds cooldown, and vanish is really a defensive ability, and I am never going to engage anyone while having vanish on cooldown.
A good DH won’t get killed by a xyz because of ghj, not on 1on1 either. I mean really the definition of good is so vague, and factors in so much, such as gear, skill, spec to name a few, but most people are not good, they’re average, while spectral sight ability in itself is beyond godlike and doesn’t require a person to be even good, it just requires to be pressed. And you’re right about the group thing, that’s exactly what happens when a stealth class is unstealthed, but its not the only way to do it, as a good DH is perfectly capable of killing an average rogue by himself, and all due to the spectral sight ability preventing the escape mechanism that work against any other class but DHs.
Lol right, not sure if I can agree with that, even in this thread it was mentioned a couple of time about amazing survivability of DHs, so I hope I don’t have to dig through the other threads outlining how good DH surivability is for a leather wearing class compare to the ones that use stealth whenever spectral sight does not cancel it out that is
thank you for finally switching to something else than a DH to better illustrate your point across, and thank you for the useful tactic advice, which I shall put into practice, but my point still stands of how I am forced to do this even when I am at the, what normally is a safest imaginable distance of 100yd, which is really not safe afterall because of spectral sight’s range, which really should be no higher than the highest range damage ability which is 40yd
That’s ok, I have no issue with your qt mark cupcake, I can play around that super easy and its not an issue for me at all, as I will just not reveal myself while you’re in visual proximity, but I will still stay within 50yd and gaze at you from afar knowing that you know that I’m around but until I’ve made my move you’re going to remain in blissful ignorance of my whereabouts as it should be
“Vanish” Sploosh
“pistol shot” “Vanish” “sprint” Sploosh
didn’t know always was: 10 seconds every 30 seconds, after pressing a cd that is not spammed on CD…
but thats just me 
any attack cancels it.
“pistol shot” “Vanish” “sprint” Sploosh
It only takes 1.
well learn to escape properly and that is a non issue.
Your intent is not to engage anyone at all…
you just want to leech free stuff from war mode wile complaining about pvp happening…
I can 100% confirm that they are super easy to kill.
Rogues have even more.
you are welcome.
DH doesn’t even have enough movement to close a 100y gap on a rogue thats fleeing threw the duration of SS.
oo salty.
thats what flair is for “Cupcake”